Super or Unleaded

[Boydie]

Guys,

I am getting a bit of stick on my local forum for not using super all the time in the S3 - should this be the case?

The sticker on the petrol cap reads 98/95 so I presume that means preferabley 98ron but normal unleaded is ok?

Bare in mind this is my first week owning the S3 so funds are slightly low and I have been driving derv for the past 6 years!

Two good mates drive a remapped GTI and remapped Leon Cupra (s3 engine) and both run unleaded fine and dandy

What are you lot using and why?

 

[WiZBiT]

Nothing but super mate, you owe it to your car

 

[Jamiekip]

As per wizbit - nothing but super.
It says in the manual that the engine was designed around using super, but it will perform on unleaded.
Super gives you better performance and better economy (it did on my old 8L S3 anyway - 30 miles per tank more) and if you are rempapping that is deffo designed around super unleaded.

Question - you spend all your hard earned on a performance hatchback, only to cut corners on fuel.... tut, tut

Seriously though mate, I would only put 98+ Octane in the tank if I were you.

 

[gixxer600k4]

it will run ok on 95RON but the engine will know and will cut down on power, 98ron or more, shell v power is the best, i always use it, even tho i dont have an s3. its much more refined than normal 95ron and has cleaning agents in it. bp 102ron is also very good but difficult to get hold of, and expensive!

edit: and as jamie said, you spend all your hard earned cash on a high performance car when you give it bog standard fuel. i only use shell v-power as it is good stuff, i dont go to tescos to get my fuel, also get good points on v-power club card!

 

[WiZBiT]

i dont go to tescos to get my fuel, also get good points on v-power club card!

Whats wrong with Tescos super?

 

[gixxer600k4]

mainly because i use my shell card, but shell or bp have cleaning agents in it and i think the stuff you get from the smaller garages like 'jet don't provide such refined fuels, not sure about tescos but i still don't use their fuel

 

[Ash B]

I'd use Super/V-Power may cost a bit more. But better overall for your car! And as Jamie said better performance and better economy! Even i use super or V-Power in my car haha You can use unleaded, but the other two are better for the car.

Plus if you do ever have to use unleaded this is a warning for every one, there were some large case's Tesco's fuel were contaminated! Problem was sorted. But still got a few complients. And it will take you a while to get them to sort it out or pay out!

EDIT: Only know due to the fact i use to work for Tesco Head Office up in till 1 month ago! And we all had a meeting about it regarding complaints and gogw

 

[daviscup]

BP Ultimate in mine every time. We dont get Tesco 99 or V-power over here so not much choice I'm afraid.

 

[warren_S5]

I drove a dealer demo S3 running 95RON, and it felt quite laggy. I asked the dealer why he was using 95RON in it when the tech data spec recommends 98RON and he said "oh most people don't notice" (how to sell your cars?!?!?).

The car will run adequately on 95RON, but with reduced performance. Be mindful that just because when you eventually choose to put a bellyfull of Shell's finest in the tank, you will NOT notice immediate benefit. ECU's take time to adapt, and if you can consistently run on one fuel the car has to adapt less often (which can only be a good thing).

For a while Tesco 99 seemed to be the tipple of choice with its super high octance rating, but supposedly (and PLEASE NOTE this is NOT fact, it's hearsay), the Tesco fuel achieves its 99RON status using quite a concoction of additives. These in turn, particularly in engines which are stressed can leave increased deposits on and around the back of the valves. Supposedly (as we may also see is the case when Andy's engine is stripped down), the S3 valves are coking up faster than we may like to know, and this may be in part to the way the fuel is delivered using the FSi technology.

I think it may be PSA group (Pug/Citroen) who hold the patent on injectors set deep in the piston chamber, and FSi technology was developed as an alternative solution to circumvent the patent. Whilst it is an incredibly clever technology in its own right, whether it works as well in heavier fuelling modified vehicles remains to be seen.

Personally I wouldn't use anything other than V-Power, or as a substitute BP Ultimate Unleaded (unless you run out of fuel in a part of the world where there is no option of course). You do get better performance, better cleaning/reliability, and better MPG (very slight).

 

[mnoble]

Personally I wouldn't use anything other than V-Power, or as a substitute BP Ultimate Unleaded (unless you run out of fuel in a part of the world where there is no option of course). You do get better performance, better cleaning/reliability, and better MPG (very slight).

I have to agree with Warren here V-power 1st choice BP if I can't get it. so far 4000 mile I have managed to fuel with V-power every time.

 

[MancDave]

Hi chaps good topic....

I have a Texaco Fuel Card and can only use texaco and morrisons i think there best fuel ive noticed is super unleaded but 97Ron will this be o.k

 

[AuldReekie]

Only ever V-Power or Tesco 99.

I wonder who perpertuates this rumour. Other than the reported incident whereby some of Tesco's and Morrisons' fuel (not necessarily 99 either) was contaminated with Ethanol, I know of no other evidence to suggest that it is anyway an inferior product. In fact, that issue was traced to the supplier/agent (not their refinery), which realistically could happen to any of the other major fuel suppliers.

I have ran all my most recent cars on either of the two and have never had any issues, and I will continue to do so.

P.S. I don't work for either, but work on the basis of facts - these fuels achieve European standards.

Edit: Just to clarify the posts above this were posted whilst I was typing. So this is not a direct response to any one individual. But it is funny how it always raises its head when Tesco fuel is mentioned - do we have Shell sleepers in our midsts? :busted_cop:

 

[10blazin]

i ran mine on tesco 99 for a bit it was better in performance but lately have just switched to unleaded for cost ....unleaded is still ok just not as on edge as it was on 99 tesco ....

 

[firebobby]

I run the A3 and the Elan on tesco's super, all my old cars, Evo's, Scoobs,
and various other performance motors have
also used it. Never had a problem. Although near me shell is as cheap including V-max, so I do use that as well.
regards

 

[AuldReekie]

...Although near me shell is as cheap including V-max, so I do use that as well...

Very good point actually: despite my local Shell being on the A1(M), they are now similarily priced! What is that all about? I will be keeping an eye on that as fuel prices have stealthily shot up again (whole different argument again ).

 

[Boydie]

cheers guys - will use up this tank of pishy 95 and stick in the good stuff!

Unfortunately, we do not get V-power or tesco 99 here in N.Ireland but BP ultimate will have to do or the likes!

Thanks

 

[warren_S5]

Only ever V-Power or Tesco 99.

I wonder who perpertuates this rumour. Other than the reported incident whereby some of Tesco's and Morrisons' fuel (not necessarily 99 either) was contaminated with Ethanol, I know of no other evidence to suggest that it is anyway an inferior product. In fact, that issue was traced to the supplier/agent (not their refinery), which realistically could happen to any of the other major fuel suppliers. :busted_cop:

I don't think this is based on the issue of the fuel being substandard i quality or performance, it is observations of 'people' who have modified cars and then observed the coking up of the valves when using Tesco fuel. The Tesco stuff is supposed to (unsurprisingly) outperform anything else in outright power terms, but due to it's chemical make up in combination with the FSi method of fuel injection could cause greater deterioration of valves.

As I say, I have heard it second hand and still treat it with some caution.

 

[10blazin]

I don't think this is based on the issue of the fuel being substandard i quality or performance, it is observations of 'people' who have modified cars and then observed the coking up of the valves when using Tesco fuel. The Tesco stuff is supposed to (unsurprisingly) outperform anything else in outright power terms, but due to it's chemical make up in combination with the FSi method of fuel injection could cause greater deterioration of valves.

As I say, I have heard it second hand and still treat it with some caution.

that's pretty worrying tbh true or not do you wanna take the risk , i may switched to sainburys or texaco or something as i always use tesco...

 

[AuldReekie]

I don't think this is based on the issue of the fuel being substandard i quality or performance, it is observations of 'people' who have modified cars and then observed the coking up of the valves when using Tesco fuel. The Tesco stuff is supposed to (unsurprisingly) outperform anything else in outright power terms, but due to it's chemical make up in combination with the FSi method of fuel injection could cause greater deterioration of valves.

As I say, I have heard it second hand and still treat it with some caution.

Funny this came up today. Over the weekend I saw a BP advert in a car mag whereby they ran an A8 (V6 or 8) and on each bank they had a dedicated fuel tank: one with BP Ultimate and the other with 'standard' UL. After 10k they stripped the engine and the valves on the normal UL were covered in that coking, the Ultimate side was immac; so there is definately merit in the argument for premium fuel.

I don't completely discount these others findings as I have never stripped an engine - let alone one which has ran solely on Tezzers - to see the effects for myself. But on the basis I have never had an issue and the lack of tangible evidence against doing so, I feel ok to use it. However, given what I said a couple of posts ago about prices, the advantage of price it held of Shell is rapidly deminishing.

 

[paddy]

I do the same run of 200 Miles on the motorway every month and have tried both Super (Shell V)and std fuel on numerous occasions.
I got no noticeable difference in performance or mileage from either. Cars are designed to run on 95ron and they both meet the same BS for engine cleanliness and protection.
If you spend the extra on super then good luck to you but it is totally un necessary and you ARE waisting your money. It is however an excellent move by the petrol companies

If you don't believe me try running both on a Dyno. I have with bikes and the difference is negligible and bikes run a much higher compression than your ave Audi.

 

[warren_S5]

I do the same run of 200 Miles on the motorway every month and have tried both Super (Shell V)and std fuel on numerous occasions.
I got no noticeable difference in performance or mileage from either. Cars are designed to run on 95ron and they both meet the same BS for engine cleanliness and protection.
If you spend the extra on super then good luck to you but it is totally un necessary and you ARE waisting your money. It is however an excellent move by the petrol companies

If you don't believe me try running both on a Dyno. I have with bikes and the difference is negligible and bikes run a much higher compression than your ave Audi.

Based on your statement why would Audi recommend running on 98RON as the primary fuel for the S3. They have no vested interest to do so if it is an extravagance. It takes multiple tanks to see any difference, and when you get to stage 2+ then the benefits should accentuate as the fuel requirements increase. I stand to be corrected, but many people whos opinion I trust say it is a worthy investment.

 

[AuldReekie]

Hey new Sig Pic!

This is what gets me: why AM I wasting my money? On the word of Joe public (no personal offence intended) who drives 200 unregulated miles a month, chopping from a different tank of fuel once in a while - or - on the basis of multi-million petro chemical research and development? Do me a favour mate. And lets make this clear too, I am no zealot of the fuel companies, nor do I like to throw my money away.

Furthermore your point is moot. No one has said the cars are not designed to run on 95, but have said that better performance will be attained by using a higher octane, RON, etc, fuel.

 

[Dandle]

I do the same run of 200 Miles on the motorway every month and have tried both Super (Shell V)and std fuel on numerous occasions.
I got no noticeable difference in performance or mileage from either. Cars are designed to run on 95ron and they both meet the same BS for engine cleanliness and protection.
If you spend the extra on super then good luck to you but it is totally un necessary and you ARE waisting your money. It is however an excellent move by the petrol companies

If you don't believe me try running both on a Dyno. I have with bikes and the difference is negligible and bikes run a much higher compression than your ave Audi.

Thats because very few N/A cars are able to take full advantage of super unleaded and its pretty pointless putting it in them. Turbo cars, especially higher boosting ones are prone to detination with lower ron fuels. The cars ecus are designed to ****** the ignition if det is detected at the cost or reduced power and slightly higher fuel consumption. This is why there are the two fuel types listed on the fuel caps. The higher is the recommended but the lower is telling you that they will run on normal if you have to put it in. I have always found no benefit on running lower ron fuels in my turbo cars as by the time Ive lost a few mpg there is no saving anyway. I might as well pay the extra and have the car running as it should without restricting it with lower quality fuel.

On a side note tesco 99 fuel is upped to 99ron with the petrol being mixed with bio ethanol to make a higher ron rating(i believe all tesco fuel has a minimum of 5% bio mix). Shell V-power and the like are normally cracked to the higher ron rating rather than being blended to it. Nothing particularly wrong with it I dont think but my T4 really ran like a dog on tesco 99 so I never used it again and went back to shell. Its up to the person filling the tank though if saving £2.50 add per tank is a worthwhile on the car they have bought.

 

[paddy]

Hey new Sig Pic!

This is what gets me: why AM I wasting my money? On the word of Joe public (no personal offence intended) who drives 200 unregulated miles a month, chopping from a different tank of fuel once in a while - or - on the basis of multi-million petro chemical research and development? Do me a favour mate. And lets make this clear too, I am no zealot of the fuel companies, nor do I like to throw my money away.

Furthermore your point is moot. No one has said the cars are not designed to run on 95, but have said that better performance will be attained by using a higher octane, RON, etc, fuel.

I drive1200 miles a month but i do the same journey of 200 once a month and that would seem to be the best time to try my own test. I am simply saying ( as Joe public) and some one who has been working with and building high performance engines for 35 years now including racing motorcycles and outfits, that i have not found any difference that would be noticeable on the road either in fuel consumption or performance that would justify paying an extra 8-10% for Super. similar test were carried out in the motorcycle world with "octane booster additives" and no real advantage to warrant the cost was found. Small gains in mileage might well be possible and if Audi recommend it for the S3 then go ahead but it makes no difference in my 3.2 i can assure you. At the end of the day it makes no odds to me !! if you are happy with super then thats fine
I understood this was a poll so was just voicing my opinion. I didn't claim it to be anything other than...my opinion.

Do you a favour mate ?? no i don't thinks so

 

[Flibble]

I tend to use v-power or tesco 99 - car just runs a lot nicer on it, it's really boggy on normal 95 RON.

Also v-power at least has better detergents than normal 95 RON, and given how prone FSI engines are to getting gunked up, having the best cleaning possible sounds like a good idea.

 

[paddy]

cheers guys - will use up this tank of pishy 95 and stick in the good stuff!

Unfortunately, we do not get V-power or tesco 99 here in N.Ireland but BP ultimate will have to do or the likes!

Thanks

Let us know how you get on Boydie

as far as i can see the S3 has a compression ratio of about 9:1 and i cant see why that would need super ? the 3.2 engines are 12.5:1 and run fine on 95 ron.

This from the audi web site

Aluminum V6 spark-ignition engine with gasoline direct injection, DOHC, 2-stage variable intake manifold,
demand-controlled high-pressure and low-pressure fuel system
Arrangement Front mounted, longitudinal
Bore 3.37 in. 85.5 mm
Stroke 3.65 in. 92.8 mm
Displacement 195.081 cu. in. 3197 cc
Compression ratio 12.5 : 1​

Fuel requirement Premium unleaded 91 AKI / 95 RON recommended for maximum performance​

Horsepower (SAE) 265 hp @ 6500 rpm​

Torque 243 lbs. ft. @ 3000-5000 rpm

 

[AuldReekie]

Paddy, my issue was your assertion that I (we) are wasting our money - subjective if nothing else in this case. It may have just been me - and if it was I appologise - but the use of CAPS suggested to me more than just an opinion. To be fair, if you had said what you have now in your second post then things would have been a lot clearer mate, in so far as you have now specified that you are talking about your car (N/A).

I want to stress that the Joe public wasn't a dig, just a collective term and one that I would include myself in. The opinion statement was a little below the belt given I said that the point was moot, not your opinion.

Anyway...it's late and I am talking about petrol on the internet which is hardly healthy. No hard feelings on my behalf.

@ Dandle - thanks for the info on the difference between Shell and Tezzers.

Edit: Do you a favour mate ?? no i don't thinks so -

 

[Dandle]

Let us know how you get on Boydie

as far as i can see the S3 has a compression ratio of about 9:1 and i cant see why that would need super ? the 3.2 engines are 12.5:1 and run fine on 95 ron.

This from the audi web site

Aluminum V6 spark-ignition engine with gasoline direct injection, DOHC, 2-stage variable intake manifold,
demand-controlled high-pressure and low-pressure fuel system
Arrangement Front mounted, longitudinal
Bore 3.37 in. 85.5 mm
Stroke 3.65 in. 92.8 mm
Displacement 195.081 cu. in. 3197 cc
Compression ratio 12.5 : 1​

Fuel requirement Premium unleaded 91 AKI / 95 RON recommended for maximum performance​

Horsepower (SAE) 265 hp @ 6500 rpm​

Torque 243 lbs. ft. @ 3000-5000 rpm

The reason it has a lower compression ratio is because its a forced induction motor once you factor in the air forced into the motor the pressures are alot higher than your engine which has to suck its air in. Its normal for turbo cars to have a lower CR than N/A cars. The 3.2 as you say wont benefit from super unleaded as the engine isnt mapped for it, cars that are mapped for it do benefit though.

 

[10blazin]

i put a tank of 95 ron and a cup of cat **** in mine and it effin FLIES like a METEOR

no but on a serious note i find that the 99 ron is more expensive and the car seems to drink it faster......

 

[Nilz]

I have always used V Power since I have had my 8L S3, it makes a difference mileage wise as well, as I get at least 30-40miles more per tank and it also feels more responsive than using normal unleaded.

The previous owner always used normal unleaded and when I got the car and made the change, you could tell the difference for sure.

 

[S3Alex]

I'd used the local supermarket 95 RON for a while,before having the engine remapped and the exhaust done,and then began to have problems with misfiring,which was partly solved by going back to the good stuff.

The misfire has now been completely solved by adding a CAI,but I always use either Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate.

My last two turbo cars would only run safely on 99RON.

 

[warren_S5]

Here is the tech data sheet for the new S3, and the ONLY recommended fuel for this car is 98RON. Doesn't even mention 95RON as a recommended option.

http://www.autonews.net.au/static/audi/models/S3%20Sportback%20S%20tronic%20techdata%20May09.pdf

My question to this is why?

What could possibly lead VW Group to specify something that wasn't required?

I'm not questioning anyones right to an opinion, it's just when my tuning house and even the manufacturer specify 98RON I don't feel compelled to use anything else.

If I had a garage with 102RON garage near me I'd use that.

I seem to remember that some time ago one of the car shows used a Rover K series engine with various octane boosters and the tests were inconclusive so I can fully understand any skepticism, but then I do believe N/A engine maybe don't necessarily benefit so much as turbo engines.

To supplement the fuel I have switched to NGK Iridium plugs to maximise the combustion process. Supposedly Ford are working on inserted lazers (to get rid of plugs altogether - will be out in less than 3 years!!!)

 

[paddy]

Paddy, my issue was your assertion that I (we) are wasting our money - subjective if nothing else in this case. It may have just been me - and if it was I appologise - but the use of CAPS suggested to me more than just an opinion. To be fair, if you had said what you have now in your second post then things would have been a lot clearer mate, in so far as you have now specified that you are talking about your car (N/A).

I want to stress that the Joe public wasn't a dig, just a collective term and one that I would include myself in. The opinion statement was a little below the belt given I said that the point was moot, not your opinion.

Anyway...it's late and I am talking about petrol on the internet which is hardly healthy. No hard feelings on my behalf.

@ Dandle - thanks for the info on the difference between Shell and Tezzers.

Edit: Do you a favour mate ?? no i don't thinks so -

No worries, its my fault for not reading the original post properly and jumping off the deep end !! I assumed this was a general 95-99ron debate but Boydie was talking about his new S3 so it has nothing to do with my 3.2 anyway !! or motorcycles

All the best
Paddy

 

[pcmanning]

Some err "facts" from a series of tests here

http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/Fuel_Test_Results_Update.shtml

To summarise, v-power, bp ultimate and Tesco 99 very close, and all better that the 95ron stuff. Sadly the links from the "original report" appear broke, but the PDF has the charts in

http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/content/site/downloads/press-release-full-290806.pdf

Paul

 

[AuldReekie]

Some err "facts" from a series of tests here

http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/Fuel_Test_Results_Update.shtml

To summarise, v-power, bp ultimate and Tesco 99 very close, and all better that the 95ron stuff. Sadly the links from the "original report" appear broke, but the PDF has the charts in

http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/content/site/downloads/press-release-full-290806.pdf

Paul

Good find there Paul.

Looks lilke Tescos is vindicated to some extent, but it's a shame it doesn't cover the potentional 'coking' aspect too. It certainly has reassured me that it is not an Emperors new clothes effect though. The 'cheaper' option might not be so accurate now unfortunately.

 

[N8]

Sorry to but in on this thread. Hasn't it actually been PROVEN that super unleaded i.e. v-power is better for the engine all round? I remember watching fith gear and that acually measured the gains of bhp using different fuels, V-Power was the best of course.

It really is only a couple of pence more. I use V-Power diesel in my car, I can FEEL the difference and as mentioned get better economy!

 

[Dandle]

It really is only a couple of pence more. I use V-Power diesel in my car, I can FEEL the difference and as mentioned get better economy!

I use v-power derv in my BMW but it doesnt really make any difference to power or economy as v-power diesel doesnt have a higher calorific rating unlike the petrol which has a higher ron. The claims it gives more power and economy are due to its ability to clean modern diesel engines that are dirty and restore lost performance not give more performance on an already good engine. I just use it because if it keeps my engine a bit cleaner I dont mind paying the extra for it, it might stop carbon build up, swirl flap or DPF failure and thats about it for me.

 

[N8]

I use v-power derv in my BMW but it doesnt really make any difference to power or economy as v-power diesel doesnt have a higher calorific rating unlike the petrol which has a higher ron. The claims it gives more power and economy are due to its ability to clean modern diesel engines that are dirty and restore lost performance not give more performance on an already good engine. I just use it because if it keeps my engine a bit cleaner I dont mind paying the extra for it, it might stop carbon build up, swirl flap or DPF failure and thats about it for me.

I must be putting in "pimp juice" instead then

 

[Dandle]

I must be putting in "pimp juice" instead then

 

[unkle]

Bare in mind this is my first week owning the S3 so funds are slightly low and I have been driving derv for the past 6 years!

Go back to derv....

Seriously though, I had a Mk5 GTI and only ever ran it on V-Power, when I moved from Germany to the UK I couldnt really afford to run it on V-Power/Optimax so switched to normal RON95, apart from one time when I filled up at Morrisons I never really noticed the difference, unless your keeping the car long term or like racing Saxo's at traffic lights and drive everywhere hell for leather I doubt you would notice much of a difference performance wise, why not give it a try for yourself couple of tanks on RON95 then up it to the goodstuff only you can decide which is best for how you drive, ignore the people on the other forum experts on forums are ten a penny.............