Hi and Mid B&O retrofit

larbel

Registered User
I have Audi Audio System in my car, the sound is decent for what it is, just wondering if swapping the 4 standard hi with B&O tweeters, and add the mid range speakers to the front doors would make much difference?

From what I understand, no VCDS needed, just a direct swap and add-on, US$240 for the parts including the front door speaker mesh, worth it?
 

Rob2k68

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Not sure about the speakers but the speaker grilles in the door cards are moulded in to the main panel then the B&O trim which is just a surround is heat staked on and not available separately you need to buy the door cards complete.
 

larbel

Registered User
Thanks Rob, but I'm talking about just adding the mid range that's right behind the door handle, not the woofer with the lights. The Audi Audio 10 speakers system doesn't have anything there, and the mid will come with the grills so should be a direct swap, only need to figure out how to tab into the power... Anyone done this? According to the supplier, just replacing the tweeters will yield noticeable differences...

Mid with grills.
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Tweeters
tweeter.png
 

Rob2k68

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Ah gotcha - yep mid grilles will just clip in there's two fixings behind them in any case if you need to remove the door card so need to come off anyway ;o)
 

Schizophonic

Registered User
What other products does your supplier have with the a3 b&o speaker set?
 
Be interested in knowing how this goes, would love some extra sound from the blanks. Be nice if it's just direct install, but wonder where/what you tap into to get extra sound power source.
 

Schizophonic

Registered User
wont you still need to tell VCDS to say you have additional speakers?

I still have the *** sub to install on mine, got a parrot kit to attached to the rear of my MMI as I dont want to splice my original cables. But then once all the hardware is connected, I dont know if the sub output is activated on the MMI even though changes have been made to the MMI software to trick there is.
 

larbel

Registered User
Mine has *** from factory and the woofer etc activated on MMI menu already, I'm just adding the B&O mid range to the front door, and replacing the DM tweeters with B&O so no VCDS tweak needed.

They've done this to countless 8Vs and according to them, once the 10 speakers setup is activated, the additional B&O will work just fine. Only when you replace the sub and amp would you need to do some VCDS fix.
 
Wow this is easier than expected, I wanted to get some aftermarket speakers and put in there, but let me know how it sounds. Would think there wouldn't be enough power to run the additional speakers.

Also do you have a link where you got the kit? This replaces the tweeter and mid speaker that isn't there right?
 

larbel

Registered User
Depends on which system you have...

For standard 8 speakers system, they recommend the followings:
1) Adding the center dash treble
2) Adding the rear shelf sub
3) Replacing the 4 DM tweeters with B&O
4) Adding the B&O front door mid
5) VCDS enabling 10 speakers system/sub MMI menu

For *** (Which is what I'm doing):
1) Replacing the 4 DM tweeters with B&O
2) Adding the B&O front door mid

But the 4 tweeters are already there no matter which system, it's the front door mid that's missing for ***, plus center dash and sub for standard 8 speakers system. They said the stock amps are more than enough to run them and there's night and day difference... So let's see how it goes in a few days. They do not have a website, but you can pretty much find them for about the same price at eBay.de
 
I think I have the same system as you - the center and sub. I think the system is pretty decent but have wanted to upgrade the speakers for awhile. Thanks for the info!
 

Schizophonic

Registered User
Would you mind providing details of your contact? Getting the speakers can be found on ebay easily but its the wiring or lack of instructions thats available i struggle on. They might have some useful resource I can ask them.
 

glospete

Registered User
I have the same *** setup as you so wondered how I can obtain the mid-range speakers and tweeters?
 

larbel

Registered User
I have the same *** setup as you so wondered how I can obtain the mid-range speakers and tweeters?

I honestly don't know besides eBay.de Or if you sign up on my carbon fiber group buy thread, I could help you order and ship to you with the CF parts LOL. Just kidding..

Seriously, if you have WeChat, you could contact them, but I really doubt he can speak English. I'll post my review after I install them maybe end of next week? And if you like them, I don't have any problem helping you order them.
 

glospete

Registered User
That would be great - many thanks. I'm looking forward to your install review.


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larbel

Registered User
IMG_9968.JPG
Finally received all the parts today, all checked out, only problem is they got here so late and I'm off to San Diego Comic Con to work for coupe of weeks.. Won't be able to install them until I get back... :grinning:
 
Looking forward to the install! If you dont mind, and when your not busy, might have you help me order. Still deciding or if I want to just put aftermarket speakers.
 

larbel

Registered User
Finally got around to attempt installing the speakers last night, but found out that I need a few more things before I can finish them...

The B&O tweeter does NOT come with any capacitor built in, I guess the B&O amp has crossover built in so it's not needed on the stock B&O system? I tested it without any cap, the sounds are sooo much clearer up top compares to the AAS tweeter, and really opens up the soundstage. So I just ordered some ELNA Silmic II 4.7uF 50v cap, could be a tough soldering job since the wires are so tiny, but will see... The vendor did supplied me with some Nichicon 4.7uF 50v, but don't think they're for audio, so might as well do it right...

For the mids, I removed the door panels in attempt to try to see if I can extract the pins from the bass speaker's connector by using needles... Didn't work, and I don't want to destroy the wirings so I just ordered some Molex pin extractor tool as well.. The midrange is the weakage point of the AAS I guess, any mid added there should be a huge step up so again, will see when the parts arrives.

IMG_0124.JPG
 

airbus319

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
reshaping a Kirby grip is a great way to make a pin extractor tool. I bought a bag of them from poundland, cheap as chips
 

Sean6211

Registered User
Hi Larbel,

Thanks for updating this thread. Looking at doing this myself, and have ordered the tweeters off ebay.

For the capacitors, bear in mind the B&O tweeters have a lower impedence (4 ohms) vs the original tweeters (8 ohms). This will affect the crossover frequency. A 4.7uF capacitor on a 4 ohm tweeter will give a crossover frequency of 8500Hz approximate, which is a bit on the high size. Perhaps a 20uF capacitor will work better, giving a crossover of 2000Hz as most tweeters have a frequency response of 2 - 20kHz.

Also, soldering a capacitor to the thin tweeter lead will be very difficult. An easier option is to cut one of the speaker wire leads, and splice in the capacitor in series, and shrink wrap the lot.
 

larbel

Registered User
Airbus319 - Thanks! Kirby grip is a great idea, why didn't I think of that LOL But since the Molex tool is already on it's way, guess will just wait a couple more days, have to wait for the caps anyway...

Sean - There're actually two versions of the stock D&M tweeters, the 8V0035398A is 8 ohms 10W (which I have on mine), and there is 8V0035399 which is 4 ohms 20W just like the B&O, which I guess comes with the newer 8Vs.

On the 8 ohms version (mine), it has a 10uF 35v cap soldered, but on the 4 ohms version, it has a 4.7uF 35v cap. I'm just following the original spec so went with 4.7uF 50v :grimacing: The vendor also said 4.7uF works best and they claimed to have done like few dozens of this mod so will see... And I guess if you have the 4 ohms D&M version, you won't see as much improvement with the B&O upgrade.

This is my 8 ohms with 10uF 35v cap
IMG_0125.JPG


This is the 4 ohms version with 4.7uF 35v cap
4uf20w.jpg
 

Sean6211

Registered User
larbel,

Glad you have this sorted. I am guessing mine is the older 8 ohm tweeter, seeing my car is built late 2013, and complied Jan 2014.

Not too happy with the high frequency output of the stock tweeters (kinda muddy), so I am happy to give the B&O's a go and see if they will enhance the upper frequency clarity. If you noticed improved clarity, I think that's the way to go.
 

larbel

Registered User
Not sure if anyone's even care about this, but this little project is turning into a much bigger mess than expected LOL.. As it turns out, on Audio Sound System, the front treble is 8 ohms 10W front, and bass is 2 ohms 40W sharing the same channel, making it 1.6 ohms impedance per channel for ***, if I add the B&O 4 ohms 20w front plus the 4 ohms 20w mid to the front channel, it will make it 1 ohms and pretty much frying the amp for sure...

The shop claimed it working because they're adding it to the standard 8 speaker system which has 8 ohms front bass like the B&O... So the only way if I want to replace the front treble and adding the mid is to add the 8 ohms 100W B&O front bass as well!! So right now I'm deciding if I even want to do this.. Any car stereo expect around can tell me which you think will have better result before I go out and buy the B&O bass?

Audi Sound System setup
standard.jpg

B&O treble/mid/bass front channel setup
frontmidbbass.jpg


Meantime, since the front center mid is the same 4 ohms 20W for both *** and B&O so I went ahead and swapped it, the result is pretty good!! I definitely have clearer and louder mid due to I guess the B&O is way more sensitive than the ***? And I've also soldered the ELNA bipolar 4.7uf 50w cap to the B&O treble, wasn't as bad as I thought it would be haha... These will go to the rear tomorrow since they're the same impedance as the *** at the rear, the only question now if I want the front B&O bass or just stop right here...

B&O and *** center mid side by side
IMG_0196.JPG
IMG_0197.JPG


B&O tweeter with ELNA 4.7uf cap
IMG_0198.JPG
 
Would it be possible to move the rear speakers to the front door? I haven't looked but I'm assuming the rear door has the mid speaker and sized accordingly... Then the b&o could go to the rear door for the time being, technically allowing all three speakers up front without harming the stock amp?

I not the smartest when it comes to resistors, ohm, etc.

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hellodave

Registered User
Not sure if anyone's even care about this, but this little project is turning into a much bigger mess than expected LOL.. As it turns out, on Audio Sound System, the front treble is 8 ohms 10W front, and bass is 2 ohms 40W sharing the same channel, making it 1.6 ohms impedance per channel for ***, if I add the B&O 4 ohms 20w front plus the 4 ohms 20w mid to the front channel, it will make it 1 ohms and pretty much frying the amp for sure...
Could you try wiring the mid and tweeter in series to get 8ohm impedance? I'm not sure how the crossover (capacitor) on the tweeter would affect it though.

If you know anything about crossover design (which I don't!) you could design a passive crossover which effectively isolates the drivers from each other, so the amp only needs to be rated for the one with the lowest impedance. I used to have a component speaker set with a 4 ohm tweeter and 2 ohm woofer, yet its impedance into the crossover was 2 ohms (not 1.33).

The *** cheats and doesn't bother with proper crossovers - it has the high pass cap on the tweeter and uses the natural roll-off of the bass driver at higher frequencies as its low pass filter. By contrast, the B&O will have active crossovers for each amp channel, hence no capacitor on the tweeter.

The shop claimed it working because they're adding it to the standard 8 speaker system which has 8 ohms front bass like the B&O... So the only way if I want to replace the front treble and adding the mid is to add the 8 ohms 100W B&O front bass as well!! So right now I'm deciding if I even want to do this.. Any car stereo expect around can tell me which you think will have better result before I go out and buy the B&O bass?
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea - the *** woofer is 2 ohm so they can extract maximum power from the weedy head unit amp (about 25w RMS on a good day). If you swap that for an 8 ohm B&O driver you'll be sending 1/4 of the power (~6w) to a woofer designed for 100w. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect that to work very well - there just isn't enough power to get the B&O driver moving (unless you add an offboard amp), so I'd expect it to be a bit quiet!
 

airbus319

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Just go for the whole hog retrofit like I'm doing it's not a massive job, well once the carpets are out lol. If you want more info PM me
 

larbel

Registered User
Rcnacura - The rear speakers are different size and shape, won't fit the front :(

Hellodave - Yeah, series connecting the mid and tweeter would be the best option I guess, it will still be 1.6 ohms and won't affect the 2 ohms bass at all. The problem is like you said, the passive crossover, I guess if I can feed the positive to the mid first before the tweeter, it could work, since the tweeter already has the cap. The mid could do without crossover I guess, but it means I'll have extend the wire from the a-pillar to the mid first, and then back.. Need to figure out a clean way to do this, plus reading up on other ways of doing the passive crossover with series connection...

Airbus319 - I wish I could.. None of the local shop do retrofit over here, they won't bother if you bring in your own components, and no one locally can get the B&O stuffs so I'm left all to myself if I want to do this retrofit. And I'm over estimating myself as it is already, let alone the whole B&O retrofit LOL
 

larbel

Registered User
Ok, so the center mid and the rear tweeters are swapped, since they're the same ohms and watts, they're just direct swaps. Turned out pretty good, the center mid because are more sensitive, actually improved the mid by bring it out more to the front and sounded more clear. The rear tweeters because they're right behind the front seats, moved the whole soundstage a little bit forward and clearer up top too. It's nothing major, but you'll definitely notice the improvement.

As for the front tweeter and mid, as per the last post, I'm still deciding if to do it, series connection will cut the tweeter and mid's power in half, but I haven't find time to figure out the wirings from the a-pillar to the door yet, maybe next weekend when I'm more free?
 

airbus319

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
attached are where the pinouts of the B&O connector go to with cable thicknesses and routes through doors the ones in brackets at the end are the door pinouts, this might help you trace the cables. Another consideration is the cable thickness when adding uprated speakers, I'm retrofitting B&O so will be replacing all the speaker cables with the correct cabling, the B&O stuff does require some uprating compared to the standard sound system.

cheers

David.
 

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larbel

Registered User
Finally got around to test fit the B&O tweeter running in series with the mid.. The result is hmm.. positive, the tweeter's power although got cut in half, but since it went from 8ohms to 4ohms plus it's more sensitive, it's actually about the same loudness as the D&M but with much crispier highs. The mid though is somewhat under power, it still sounds nice, the whole soundstage got pulled back a little and that's what I wanted. Overall, the improvement is there, but it's more like a subtle tweak, there's definitely better mid and crispier highs vs the standard D&M muddier highs. But the result weren't nearly as much as changing the center mid and rear tweeters with the B&Os.

I still yet to look at how to pass the cable through the front door and I guess will get it sorted one of these days.. But I'm pretty satisfied with swapped the center mid and rear tweeters already, at the end, I'd really recommend swapping those with the B&Os if you have ***, as for the mid, well... A nice addition, I guess it would be much better if there's small amp to run these two instead, anyone know any small 8ohms 40W amp?

IMG_0641.JPG
 

S3quatt

Flat Oot like a ducks Foot
VCDS Map User
Probably a bit late to the party here, but after having a loan car with the standard speakers I'd say don't waste the time, effort & money.
There's very little noticeable difference in music quality unless you actually play CD's.
Listening to the radio or ipod on the standard Audi system vs B&O was no different IMHO.
Made me realise it was money wasted when I ordered my car.
 

hellodave

Registered User
Probably a bit late to the party here, but after having a loan car with the standard speakers I'd say don't waste the time, effort & money.
There's very little noticeable difference in music quality unless you actually play CD's.
Listening to the radio or ipod on the standard Audi system vs B&O was no different IMHO.
Made me realise it was money wasted when I ordered my car.
Depends how loud you like your music. At low volumes the *** is probably fine but really struggles as you turn it up. It sounds very muddy and thin at higher volumes.

Case in point - I think the *** is rubbish, my wife is quite happy with it.
 

airbus319

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Having test fitted the B&O retrofit I'm installing in my car I can definitely vouch for the uplift in quality that the system offers. There is a lot more clarity than the basic system offers and the increased volume levels without distortion make the system more useable

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cillerucho

Registered User
I have the audi sound system on a 2017 a3 sportback 8v facelift and I want to improve the sound.
It can?
-Replacing the 4 DM tweeters with B&O
-Adding the B&O front door mid
 
I have the audi sound system on a 2017 a3 sportback 8v facelift and I want to improve the sound.
It can?
-Replacing the 4 DM tweeters with B&O
-Adding the B&O front door mid
Can't be done without blowing the stock internal amp because the different ohms between the *** and b&o systems.

I wanted to add the front mid speaker, but looks like ill have to change and add an amp just to accommodate the 3 speakers per door.

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cillerucho

Registered User
Can't be done without blowing the stock internal amp because the different ohms between the *** and b&o systems.
I wanted to add the front mid speaker, but looks like ill have to change and add an amp just to accommodate the 3 speakers per door.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I am also going to add an amplifier with 8 outputs, 6 for the existing speakers of the audi sound system and 2 for the front mid speakers doors.
What model of amplifier do you plan to install?
 
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