What power to upgrade internals?

[tom792]

Looking at getting a GT30 or GT28 turbo for my S3,

After looking at Backdraft Motorsports site they have a kit that takes the S3 from 210bhp up to 325bhp using a Garrett Gt2860rs turbo.

1.8T 210/225 to 325 bhp Turbo Kit | Backdraft Motorsport

It says

"The 225 spec 1.8T engine has been tested in standard form with our 325 and 350bhp turbo kit. If you want to go for even more power you will need to uprate the engine internals. We have special deals on engine internal upgrade kits purchased with our big turbo kits. With strengthened internals you can then opt for the 400 spec turbo kit. Please call for full details 01908 821216."


What do you guys think about running a 325bhp on standard internals? My car has just over 75k miles on the engine and no current modifications, full service history ect. So has been well looked after. Just thinking an extra 115bhp may be to much for the rods, but i may be wrong, what are your guys experiences?

 

[Syvo]

its all about a roll of the dice m8 people get 280bhp without rods some only 250bhp and rods go imo i would get rods with anything over 250bhp

 

[superkarl]

It's torque and boost that are the deciding factors. Pushing more than 300 pounds of torque and forged rods are HIGHLY recommended.

 

[tom792]

okey thanks buddy, what rods are the best to go with if going up to 325 then maybe more in the future?

 

[Syvo]

these rods i think bill from badger 5 can get hold of these

Integrated Engineering 144 x 20mm Forged Rods for 1.8t, VW 16v, Early 8v

 

[Westy]

its all about a roll of the dice m8 people get 280bhp without rods some only 250bhp and rods go imo i would get rods with anything over 250bhp

Like Karl says it's not so much the power but the torque and boost. I'm running 270ish bhp from my Revo stage 2 on 21PSI but my torque is under 280lbft. I might be ok but on the other hand the engine has done 126K miles so it could bend a rod any minute now!

 

[Syvo]

too much torque and this is what you will be left with. imo i wouldnt go any more than stage 1 with a s3 without rods but its you car at the end off the day m8 westy has done it as posted how reliable only time will tell. if going gt28 or gt30 rods would be a must

 

[Westy]

too much torque and this is what you will be left with. imo i wouldnt go any more than stage 1 with a s3 without rods but its you car at the end off the day m8 westy has done it as posted how reliable only time will tell. if going gt28 or gt30 rods would be a must

To be fair if you read the rods thread on here that had a poll about how our rods are I did say that I personally wouldn't want to run stage 2 without rods! What happened there then lol.

 

[pompeysteve]

If you're getting backdraft to fit the turbo kit then have them upgrade the internals at the same time, they offer deals on that I think.
My car has the same kit and the rods lasted 11000 miles before letting go. From experience I'd say it's false economy not to upgrade, but then you could be one of the lucky ones!

 

[tom792]

if your rods go what happens to the rest of the engine? may be a stupid question so i apologize in advance

would it be a case of then just upgrading your internals or can it break more things?

 

[pompeysteve]

when mine went it left the engine via the sump taking the oil pump with it, i suppose it just depends which route it takes whether the head, cams, crank etc can be salvaged. suffice to say you're likely to be faced with a serious repair bill should a rod let go. Its a big gamble to take.

 

[tom792]

in that case rods it is then

 

[Lee172]

I would get the rods done to be on the safe side, however i do know quite a few people running bt power with standard internals.

 

[Sam_]

I'm pretty sure any kind of spikes will increase the likelihood of it happening. Quite a few people seem to be running high power on standard rods without issues from what I've read. Yes, I know it's a gamble but just pointing out. A guy here in Sydney had a GT2871R on his S3 for 50,000km on standard rods and he was running 12.6 quarters so it wasn't driven slow.

 

[Dane]

Rods are needed if you are going garrett for sure. Mapping will have an effect but if you want to engineer your car to a high level then rods are ****** good idea.

Might be a good point to change the piston rings aswell, to improve efficiency

 

[Sam_]

It depends on which Garrett you're going for Dane. Read my post above Plenty are running GT28s on standard rods. For how long who knows but like I say, a guy here ran a GT2871R here for 50,000km and had no problems.

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

if your rods go what happens to the rest of the engine? may be a stupid question so i apologize in advance

would it be a case of then just upgrading your internals or can it break more things?

Same thing but with my old engine from another car i had years ago

 

[badger5]

It depends on which Garrett you're going for Dane. Read my post above Plenty are running GT28s on standard rods. For how long who knows but like I say, a guy here ran a GT2871R here for 50,000km and had no problems.

LUCK is the biggest factor.
Rods are peace of mind fitment......... Std rods, can fail.. they do.. and will continue to do so. These cars old now. Many many cycles on them, and fatigue is a factor..

If you are planning a BT, then budget for rods..

 

[Sam_]

I agree Bill. I know it's a lottery I'm just saying that people have done it in the past. I would fit rods as piece of mind. There's nothing like worrying every time you plant the throttle that something will break.

Bad mapping and torque spikes will certainly make it more likely though, don't you think Bill?

 

[badger5]

I agree Bill. I know it's a lottery I'm just saying that people have done it in the past. I would fit rods as piece of mind. There's nothing like worrying every time you plant the throttle that something will break.

Bad mapping and torque spikes will certainly make it more likely though, don't you think Bill?

I have done it myself.. 35k miles on IHI ranging from 320bhp-360bhp on stock ibiza engine..
It was a new car, and its first 35k miles I will add.

We are not talking new cars now.
folks should remember that when thinking I want more, just remap this, BT that.... on a tired (and unseen) bottom end.

Rods is the best advise anyone could give imho

 

[ianleon]

Hello, i'm a newbie !

I'm looking at buying an S3 in the coming weeks and am after one that has good power, i have found one that is running over 300bhp but has not had the rods done, does anyone know the rough cost of getting the job done and if there is any decent companies in Norfolk ?

 

[StaceyS3]

Think Bill (Badger 5 who posted just before you) is best one to speak to has done many of these and for a reasonable price cant remember off of the top of my head how much but know it was cheaper than the other quotes i got?

And might have a spare set of rods if your after some as ended up with to sets

 

[rhubarb4]

To be fair if you read the rods thread on here that had a poll about how our rods are I did say that I personally wouldn't want to run stage 2 without rods! What happened there then lol.

What exactly is stage 2 compared to stage 1 as I thought stage 1 was like remap with filter for example B5 tip and Jetex but that has seen in excess of 260-270 bhp so wouldn't that be stage 2 figures god I'm confused lol

 

[s3dave]

If backdraft are selling the kit that does not need rods get them to sign something.......simples....

 

[Dane]

Hello, i'm a newbie !

I'm looking at buying an S3 in the coming weeks and am after one that has good power, i have found one that is running over 300bhp but has not had the rods done, does anyone know the rough cost of getting the job done and if there is any decent companies in Norfolk ?

Ian you and me should have a chat, see my signature for details

 

[damo.h]

Ian you and me should have a chat, see my signature for details

Haha I was about to pm you till I clocked Yr post