revo stage 2+ under power.....

[Nurseys3]

Hello all, iv got a slight issue with the power of my car and I'm not happy!

Car is 2007 s3 with revo stage 2+ with the following settings and mods..
b=9 t=6 f=6
3" milltek turbo back with sports cat
Itg cold air feed
Catch can
New plugs
Serviced Inc inlet and valves cleaned
Hpfp
New cam follower

Iv had it on the dyno and to me it's performing like a wet fart..
It got figures of 337bhp and 301lbt-ft
Any of you clever bunch know what might be up or any help?
I have vcds but dunno what to look for, no error codes on there though.
O and the coils and injectors are fine..?
Free gold star for the winner!

 

[mechanic69]

340 sounds about right for Stage 2+. Maybe get 360 depending how aggressive it is. What are other people getting. My Stage 3 (2+) is quoted as 337bhp.

 

[hades-]

did the dyno tech think it was running crap or under power ?

did you ask him to do any checks etc ?
without driving the car it will be hard for any member to advise to any problem that might be there.

 

[Nurseys3]

He squeezed me in between dynos so didn't have time to test. Said felt a bit flat mid to high and should be higher figures, especially torque...

 

[voorhees]

You need it tested properly,squeezed in does not sound good.

 

[Nurseys3]

I use the term squeezed in loosely. . I know it needs testing properly but I thought someone might be able to point in the right direction before. Anything I can see/log with vcds?

 

[Marshy]

That does sound pretty low for Revo stage 2+
I'm also running Revo 2+ and find my optimu settings to be
Boost 8 timing 5 fuel 6
If I run boost 9 I actually achieve less boost
I'm running airtec stage 2 intercooler and although I can run timing 6 with little timing pool I find timing 5 much better performance wise.
I've never been on a dyno but would expect with your mods to achieve at least 350 bhp
Do you know which dv your running and has it been checked?

 

[voorhees]

What fuel ?

 

[mechanic69]

It's not all about the peak power figure but the area under the curve

 

[Dean_T]

That torque level though, very low for stage 2+

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

Torque is a little low, what dyno was it run on?

 

[Nurseys3]

I'm not sure of the dyno.. run it on shell v power, what sort of torque should I be seeing?

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

I'd expect 330 plus. If it was a Dyno Dynamics dyno then the power figure is spot on. The torque figure can be out if the RPM/Speed ratio isn't setup properly. What RPM was peak power at?

 

[Nurseys3]

"Max power at 104mph or 6560 rpm"
"Max torque at 79mph or 4970 rpm"

Engine output 337bhp
Wheel output 248bhp
Drag output 89bhp
Torque 301lbt-ft

 

[S3Alex]

It's all a bit on the low side.

If the dyno booth was very hot,that may explain it,as high intake temps will drop power.

How does the car feel on the road?

 

[Nurseys3]

It was a fairly cold day, I'm not gunna say it feels slow because it doesn't as such it just to me seems like given the mods and level of map it should pull harder..

 

[S3Alex]

It was a fairly cold day, I'm not gunna say it feels slow because it doesn't as such it just to me seems like given the mods and level of map it should pull harder..

The outside air temp isn't really a problem,but if the booth itself is baking hot(as they often get being used),your car gets hot,and the intake temps are also raised.

 

[Nurseys3]

Yea I see what you mean, I wouldn't say it was hot in there at all?

 

[S3Alex]

Yea I see what you mean, I wouldn't say it was hot in there at all?

The point is that 10C rise in inlet temps may cost you up to 20bhp,or more,depending on which formula you read.

 

[Scoot Yo]

I'm a bit confused by all this, I thought revo stage 2+ should be 360-380. Yet people are stating a lot less, are revo's claims just very optimistic?

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

Revo don't have a dyno that i'm aware of They rely on people's claims so there is not consistency there, and yes the claims are a little optimistic That's not to say they are bad maps - they aren't. Whether it's an APR, Revo, or one of my custom maps, we are all going to get similar peak power figures if working with identical hardware. The advantage of having someone do it on a dyno and/or take comprehensive data logs is we know if the car is performing exactly as it should be. For example here, we have a low torque figure. This suggests low boost, so are we loosing boost at high pressures? is the timing low at peak torque? Is it a DSG car that is shedding torque?

Thanks, Rick

 

[S3Alex]

Revo don't have a dyno that i'm aware of They rely on people's claims so there is not consistency there, and yes the claims are a little optimistic That's not to say they are bad maps - they aren't. Whether it's an APR, Revo, or one of my custom maps, we are all going to get similar peak power figures if working with identical hardware. The advantage of having someone do it on a dyno and/or take comprehensive data logs is we know if the car is performing exactly as it should be. For example here, we have a low torque figure. This suggests low boost, so are we loosing boost at high pressures? is the timing low at peak torque? Is it a DSG car that is shedding torque?

Thanks, Rick

That's interesting,and I think you've got a point there.

I got the often quoted average figure from mine at Stg2+,i.e.360bhp and around 360lbs at best,on a nice cold day.

To be fair,numbers are nice,but only really useful down at the pub,but torque gets you down the road.


Rick,it's been a while in the offing,but I may head your way soon,having exhausted the cam thing.

 

[Nurseys3]

It's not dsg. See this is why I asked as a lot have said it's very low for what it should be so something isn't right.. weather thats map wise or mechanically, is there anything I can log with vcds to point me in the direction or check on the car? Like as you say timing or boost etc?

 

[S3Alex]

I'm a bit confused by all this, I thought revo stage 2+ should be 360-380. Yet people are stating a lot less, are revo's claims just very optimistic?

They all state pretty much the same,and as RIck says,using the same hardware spec,you would expect nothing different.

APR,Revo and Shark all quote around the 360bhp mark,and getting much more from the K04 is going to be pushing it to the ragged edge of it's map.

 

[voorhees]

Just a snippet from Revo's website
"Our R&D department spend hours on the road, track and rolling roads during test and development before the software is released to the public so before the software is released to you, it’s already been tested and proven in house."
These mapping companies are I assume doing all the same with testing,the bloke who maps your car for 99 quid off Ebay or Gumtree is probably not the best to go with

 

[Charlie23]

I went and got an APR stage 2+ map on mine as i have had a few of my friends with Golf GTi's have gone APR and they swear by it plus its only 5 minutes down the road.
Anyway mine is a 2007 S3 and im stage 2+ and my figures where 371Bhp with 408flb which is pretty good for a stage 2+ car which alot of people have agreed with and thats with out an upgraded intercooler.

I was speaking to one of my mates mates who is a touring car racer & mechanic and he is a very very clever guys and knows his stuff and he was saying about all cars respond differently and the main reason for low figures is how the engine has been run in. They have special ways of running a new engine in to get all the components free and lose which i have noticed at the rolling road day we when to a week ago everyone had lower mileage cars than me but i had the best performance for the stage 2+ boys.
Its only a thought and my 50 pence worth but it could just be how it is.

 

[Roar Stegegjerdet]

Du you have a dyno?

 

[S3Alex]

I went and got an APR stage 2+ map on mine as i have had a few of my friends with Golf GTi's have gone APR and they swear by it plus its only 5 minutes down the road.
Anyway mine is a 2007 S3 and im stage 2+ and my figures where 371Bhp with 408flb which is pretty good for a stage 2+ car which alot of people have agreed with and thats with out an upgraded intercooler.

I was speaking to one of my mates mates who is a touring car racer & mechanic and he is a very very clever guys and knows his stuff and he was saying about all cars respond differently and the main reason for low figures is how the engine has been run in. They have special ways of running a new engine in to get all the components free and lose which i have noticed at the rolling road day we when to a week ago everyone had lower mileage cars than me but i had the best performance for the stage 2+ boys.
Its only a thought and my 50 pence worth but it could just be how it is.

Those are good results,and especially on torque,but that may have something to do with the way that APR use timing on their maps.

Re: running in etc,that's another can of worms,but I've always followed the advice of those who've built my engines,and they have mostly been rallycross or BTCC racers,and that was to run the engine in gently over 1000 miles,then change the oil and look for any nastiness in the old oil,before turning the boost up.

 

[Charlie23]

Yep and like you said Torque is what gets you down the road

Yes i can imagine the running in senario is like that and you probably know better from experiance than most of us, but if the car has say been run in for the 1000 miles like it should then thrashed say for 80k wouldnt the engine be more loose and free than a car that has done the same running in but driven like a granny for 30k and now you want power its still going to be all tight?
Just my madnesss in thinking could be 100% wrong haha.

 

[Compkiler]

Hmmmm I hate reading posts like these when im just about to get all the hardware for Stage 2+ :-(

 

[Nurseys3]

It's not a nice feeling knowing you haven't got what you should have!

 

[Compkiler]

I totally agree Nursey!!

 

[Charlie23]

GO APR.co.uk

 

[Nurseys3]

Scratching my head.. don't know what to do next! Without spending loads of money on rolling road time to find nothing.?

 

[Charlie23]

Scratching my head.. don't know what to do next! Without spending loads of money on rolling road time to find nothing.?

Its like Alexwill who organised the rolling road day for us all, hes at stage 2+ nothing wrong with the car, drives mint pulls mint no faults and he didnt get a good reading off the rollers that morning was only 335bhp i think but hes got AMD map.

Then kentkid has got stage 2+ with a few extras also and he's running revo i think he mentioned and he got 368bhp with something like 328flb torque.

Have a look through the Rolling Road Day @ AMD Essex thread as alot of us posted our dyno graphs and that might help you decide what to do or where to go next or that its just the way it is.

 

[S3Alex]

Like I've said many times...don't get too hung up on peak figures.

The difference between even 380bhp and 360bhp is only 5% at 7000RPM.

Most people simply won't use that few percent,or even notice it.

Running a K04 anywhere past 360-370bhp is a bit of a pointless exercise anyway,as torque will be dropping off badly by then at peak rpm(and everyone's graphs show that),and it's only any use at the pub.

 

[Charlie23]

Alex man its all about the power dude!!! but i know what you are saying it does sound better saying it down the pub i will admit that haha.

But it is abit disheartening (you would never know as you arent really going to come up with any compertition 495bhp)
of someone having the same car same mods and being 40-50bhp more than you thats why the questions get asked.

Plus the 408flb helped me keep in front of the R8 the other day must mean something haha.

 

[Compkiler]

How come you got 408flb torque when Kentkid running stage 2+ also only got 328flb torque? I just dont get it tbh lol!

 

[S3Alex]

How come you got 408flb torque when Kentkid running stage 2+ also only got 328flb torque? I just dont get it tbh lol!

Depends on a lot of factors.

How well the car is tied down and loaded.
How high the ambient and intake temps are etc etc.

Then what settings are being run on which software

So many factors add up to a good or poor run.

 

[Charlie23]

Must of liked me more on the Day hahaha.

Alex would it all be mainly down to software and like i mentioned earlyer how the car is run in and running etc?

Because surely it cant be down to how they put the car on the rollers etc?

Would giving mine an extra click on the ratchet holding the car down really help lol. The standard S3 came off perfect and and all the cars seem to be spot on bar yours and Alexwill, as surely out off 12 of us that went on there if it was down to stupid factors like how well its tied down etc there would be no point in rolling road really as it would all be aload off rubbish!!

Surely its down to how the car responds to the mods, and tuning as every car is different even if they are the same engines.