High flow airfilters vs OEM----

[oldcar]

Folks, just read thru these articles, and this is why I am putting back my STOCK AIRBOX but bored intake than using any after markets so called =more flow=more power filters. = suck more dirts

Have a read tell me your thoughts, http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

I vote OEM wins-paper filter.

 

[superkarl]

You're basing your decision on ONE test on ONE particular car with a certain intake configuration. It is in no way compatible to these cars.
And if that's not enough, aftermarket filters DO prove to be beneficial on these cars, with not only airflow gains (as they do flow more, admittedly sacrificing filtration) but gains in HP on the dyno.

The results on a stock car are never going to be anything to write about if any at all, as you're only consuming as much air as is needed with the stock config. Start tuning and upping boost, increasing VE of the engine however, and it will benefit from greater surface area (the same as with an 80mm tip vs OEM tip) and greater flow capability as the engine needs more to meet its requested parameters.

Believe what you will.

 

[Prawn]

I'm happy with my S2000 filter.

OE paper filtration quality, none restrictive at ~400bhp, and it costs £11.80 at ECP so I can replace it every 6 months and always have a new fresh filter.

Win win win.

 

[Cleotra]

I also vote for OEM filter to keep the dirt out from engine. Did my research long time ago and got that idea out pretty fast.

There appears to be sand in oil pan when using oil based cone filters.

 

[Lavis89]

Think i'll stick with my s2000, i do need to order a new one though, mines probably over 12 months old now. Can't complain at the price though!

Oil based cone filters are known to be bad for these cars, it can damage the maf

 

[desertstorm]

There are quite a few tests around that give similar overall results. I think everybody would agree that the best filter for stopping dust getting in the engine is the standard one. Any performance filter oiled cotton or foam has larger openings in the filter medium that allow more dirt through.
OE filters will cause more pressure drop than a performance filter like a K and N filter. Although some OE filter set ups are pretty good.
When I had my Passat PD130 on the dyno it was running just under 200bhp when we were mapping it with a hybrid turbo. In an attempt to get it to 200bhp I removed the standard Mann PD130 air filter and the car made just over 1bhp more and about 3Lb/ft of torque. That was a standard air filter that had done over 10 K miles against no air filter at all.
When I changed the air filter for a new one I unfolded the old one.



The air filter unfolds to 28 feet long, that is a lot of surface area and the reason the standard one is so good.
So to me fitting a performance air filter on the likes of a standard car or even a slightly modified one is mostly a waste of time. The standard air filters these days are good.

A similar thing found here with a Leon TDI being tuned, the standard air filter was removed and it made no difference to the power of the standard 150bhp engine.



There is an air filter test on several performance filters here.

http://www.fastcar.co.uk/2012/05/04/performance-car-air-filter-test/

From those test results "It was also worth noting the most restrictive cone filter we tested had a pressure of 1.21kPa at 6.0m3/min, whereas the best flowing filter within the standard airbox was 2.56kPa."

To put that in perspective 1.21kpa is 0.18 psi and 2.56 kpa is 0.37 psi .

If you have a seriously modified car and want the maximum air then a large cone filter with no air box, lots of cold air feed and some way of stopping hot air from the engine being pulled in is the best to get maximum airflow, however the filtration isn't as good as OE but most of these kinds of engine set ups aren't likely to do 20K miles a year.
Oiled filters can cause issues with MAF's especially if they are over oiled.And nearly all the performance filters are oiled.

Karl

 

[RichoS 3]

As someone who had lightly tuned a number of cars with performance air filters being a starting point, on a std car they make little difference as proven on my brothers rs4 which lost c25bhp with a carbon jobbie cost many pounds over std. My experience for what it's worth has been that when I had cars modded and remapped, performance filters helped achieve the most power. Each to their own I say.

 

[Lavis89]

s2000 filter is dyno proven + paper so none of the problems with foam/cotton filters

 

[oldcar]

Thanks folks for the replies. Here is my ugly engine picture, ..anyway,,,as I can see either pressure build up in the airbox or more flows caused +/- gain in power as mentioned, these positive gains were not significant -less than2% to feel on road. Perhaps in 1/4mile race 0.01 sec is significant. I am sure with 400hp/500hp using OEMS would still give a cleaner air filtration as compared to pod type/foam type bigger PPI(porous) filters. Have a look on this video...its funny but NOT practicle....... I will be start looking for S2000 filter-intersting.....never herad it before but now have,.,,,,,,,I want a cleaner air and gives a better combustion. Thanks guys

 

[Jenno007]

Thanks folks for the replies. Here is my ugly engine picture, ..anyway,,,as I can see either pressure build up in the airbox or more flows caused +/- gain in power as mentioned, these positive gains were not significant -less than2% to feel on road. Perhaps in 1/4mile race 0.01 sec is significant. I am sure with 400hp/500hp using OEMS would still give a cleaner air filtration as compared to pod type/foam type bigger PPI(porous) filters. Have a look on this video...its funny but NOT practicle....... I will be start looking for S2000 filter-intersting.....never herad it before but now have,.,,,,,,,I want a cleaner air and gives a better combustion. Thanks guys

As much as I love mighty car mods that video is slightly flawed..

In a turbo car the need for cold air dramatically reduces because the turbo is going to heat up the air and then the intercooler is going to cool it down again. It doesn't matter what temperature the air starts at, it will end at a very similar temperature.

Secondly, the car isn't running enough boost/big enough turbo to benefit from removing any restrictions in the intake. The stock intake is adequately sized for the amount of power the car is making. With a car making more power and a less restrictive intake, you will see more gains in HP.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Gazwould]

Air intake temps do matter and make a difference.

 

[Jenno007]

Air intake temps do matter and make a difference.

Going into the engine they matter, doing into the turbo they aren't as important. The turbo is going to be heating the air up to a much higher temperature regardless and then the intercooler will be cooling the air again.

You didn't read what I said

 

[Gazwould]

So on a hot day and a car goes into a dyno cell , what's going to happen between runs 1, 2 and 3 ?

 

[Jenno007]

as you can see in the mighty car mods video there is no real hp gain cold air intake or not.

Also on a dyno, a cold air intake isn't going to do much on the third run because it's not getting any cold air as the car is stationary and the fans aren't as efficient as actually driving.

 

[craigt1985]

So on a hot day and a car goes into a dyno cell , what's going to happen between runs 1, 2 and 3 ?

The point is if the turbo is heating the intake air up to 150 degrees C (random figure) it doesn't matter if the ambient air temperature at the intake point (filter) is -10 or 90 degrees, once it's gone through the turbo it will be coming out at 150 degrees and then idealy cooled to as close to atmospheric as possible by whatever intercooler setup is fitted. Hence why the actual air temperature at the filter is fairly irrelevant in this scenario.

On a dyno run, the heat soak from the turbo would gradually increase and your IATs would increase after each run. Wouldn't make much difference with the ambient air temp as the point where the intake air is flowing through the turbo is still the highest temperature point in the system.

 

[Gazwould]

That's right run 1 could be 180 bhp and 3 , 175 bhp .

 

[Jenno007]

That's right run 1 could be 180 bhp and 3 , 175 bhp .

So is your point that the mighty car mods video isn't accurate? I wont disagree with that. But keep in mind they have long breaks between each run which would prevent heat soak as they are "constructing" the cold air intakes and swapping parts around.

 

[Gazwould]

Not referring to it , if runs were performed one after the other .

 

[Jenno007]

filming, taking the headlight out, etc etc takes time. from this you can assume there is enough of a delay between runs to allow for some cooling.

Anyway we're really off topic now

 

[Gazwould]

Nowhere near off topic yet until we have a random just detailed reflection pic , lol .

 

[Jenno007]

No detailing pics on this phone (new phone) but how about one of my workshop?

 

[Gazwould]

Stop it

 

[oldcar]

There are quite a few tests around that give similar overall results. I think everybody would agree that the best filter for stopping dust getting in the engine is the standard one. Any performance filter oiled cotton or foam has larger openings in the filter medium that allow more dirt through.
OE filters will cause more pressure drop than a performance filter like a K and N filter. Although some OE filter set ups are pretty good.
When I had my Passat PD130 on the dyno it was running just under 200bhp when we were mapping it with a hybrid turbo. In an attempt to get it to 200bhp I removed the standard Mann PD130 air filter and the car made just over 1bhp more and about 3Lb/ft of torque. That was a standard air filter that had done over 10 K miles against no air filter at all.
When I changed the air filter for a new one I unfolded the old one.



The air filter unfolds to 28 feet long, that is a lot of surface area and the reason the standard one is so good.
So to me fitting a performance air filter on the likes of a standard car or even a slightly modified one is mostly a waste of time. The standard air filters these days are good.

A similar thing found here with a Leon TDI being tuned, the standard air filter was removed and it made no difference to the power of the standard 150bhp engine.



There is an air filter test on several performance filters here.

http://www.fastcar.co.uk/2012/05/04/performance-car-air-filter-test/

From those test results "It was also worth noting the most restrictive cone filter we tested had a pressure of 1.21kPa at 6.0m3/min, whereas the best flowing filter within the standard airbox was 2.56kPa."

To put that in perspective 1.21kpa is 0.18 psi and 2.56 kpa is 0.37 psi .

If you have a seriously modified car and want the maximum air then a large cone filter with no air box, lots of cold air feed and some way of stopping hot air from the engine being pulled in is the best to get maximum airflow, however the filtration isn't as good as OE but most of these kinds of engine set ups aren't likely to do 20K miles a year.
Oiled filters can cause issues with MAF's especially if they are over oiled.And nearly all the performance filters are oiled.

Karl

Very good review, so I am stealing Prawns idea using s2000 pod filter BUT encloseed in a 120mm PVC tube-acting as an heat shield -I will update with the picture once completed-next week likly.

 

[Jenno007]

Very good review, so I am stealing Prawns idea using s2000 pod filter BUT encloseed in a 120mm PVC tube-acting as an heat shield -I will update with the picture once completed-next week likly.

Why not use the Induction Heat Shield from badger5? Affordable and likely to be much more effective.

 

[oldcar]

Why not use the Induction Heat Shield from badger5? Affordable and likely to be much more effective.

thanks, I need do some research on Badger5.....

 

[Bigdave982]

Is there a particular year S2000 filter to use?
Or do they all fit the MAF on our engines?

 

[george_seamons]

The Badger5 heatsheilds don't really do much. If you're going to the extent of heat shielding, you need one that actually encloses the filter, and completely isolates it from the heat in the engine. Rtech or Jabba do a good heatshield

 

[Jenno007]

The Badger5 heatsheilds don't really do much. If you're going to the extent of heat shielding, you need one that actually encloses the filter, and completely isolates it from the heat in the engine. Rtech or Jabba do a good heatshield

It sits right up against the bonnet so no air can come along the top and then encloses both sides of the filter, preventing any air coming from the engine side, only allowing air to come from the cold air feed side of the engine bay, or from underneath.

I would say that is doing a pretty good job.

 

[Prawn]

I don't use a heat shield or cold air feed at all.

I'm not 100% convinced there would be any worth while gains on my car.

 

[Gazwould]

I use a heat shield over the top half of a cone filter , it prevents alot of dust from settling in the pleats .

 

[oldcar]

Folks, just bought the s2000 filter , i placed next to carbon filter just to show you how small the carbon filter is. As you have read the article previously that bigger con provides thee bigger filter area that makes up the flow rate and restriction from the OEM paper type filter as in this case with s2000. I am more than happy to use this for my S3. I have decided to use PVC than Badger 5 , simply is due to its heat insulation properties. The plastic insulate better as you have seeem in Injen CAI design so as stock airbox. I hope you guys agree with me on this. And Yes, its 3 inch bolt straight on to stock MAF.

 

[A3-Lee]

Folks, just bought the s2000 filter , i placed next to carbon filter just to show you how small the carbon filter is. As you have read the article previously that bigger con provides thee bigger filter area that makes up the flow rate and restriction from the OEM paper type filter as in this case with s2000. I am more than happy to use this for my S3. I have decided to use PVC than Badger 5 , simply is due to its heat insulation properties. The plastic insulate better as you have seeem in Injen CAI design so as stock airbox. I hope you guys agree with me on this. And Yes, its 3 inch bolt straight on to stock MAF.View attachment 55863

Those carbon filters are utter junk can't really compare to an open cone

 

[Essexman]

I heard somewhere (performance VW mag) the s2000 filters are K&N,

I'm happy with my S2000 filter.

OE paper filtration quality, none restrictive at ~400bhp, and it costs £11.80 at ECP so I can replace it every 6 months and always have a new fresh filter.

Win win win.

Another win is that they are oem, not classed as aftermarket with the insurance company lol

 

[oldcar]

FOLKS, I went down to plummer shop expecting a suitable PVC for the filter...But there is not a right size for S2000 filter, next size is 22cm OD, which is too big...so I went home dissapointed.
An hour later, I come up with a better idea, TO RECYLE my 4cm thick insulation foam-used for air-con pipings from my junk yard.......OH Yeas a tight fit using tapes to wrap around the filter and to ensure there is no possible air leak from the back of the pod. And here is the picture. What you reckon guys? Any more mods ??? Thanks

 

[Jenno007]

Lol. You're restricting airflow which imo would negate any possible benefits of sucking up cooler air.

I reckon you'll have less power with that, than you would with just an open pod. Remember this, no matter how cold the air is going into your pod, its still going to be 100+ degrees when it leaves the turbo

 

[Jenno007]

Can you drink coke quicker with a straw or straight from the bottle. You've just given your car a straw

 

[oldcar]

thanks Jenno. When I closed the bonnet, the top of the foam is definately preessing against it. So Its a definate seal. I was thinking creating a cone is like create a scoop that can hold up some intake air pressure to feed the turbo. Anyway, as you said, its going to leave 100C after the turbo, in this case, yes, I better leave it open. I have not done the driving yet. So time will tell.......

 

[CMC81]

Most performance cars like audi, porsche etc put quite a lot of development into intakes etc. you would struggle to find a better intake than the one already fitted, that being said I gave always fitted an aftermarket filter such as BMC panel.

I currently have K&N fitted to my R8 in the standard housing. I check them regularly and have never found them that dirty between cleans.

Where the filter replaces the standard air intake and leaves the cone/filter exposed in the engine bay I wouldn't bother fitting. The heat soak would be quite high and probably lessen performance against stock.

 

[oldcar]

Most performance cars like audi, porsche etc put quite a lot of development into intakes etc. you would struggle to find a better intake than the one already fitted, that being said I gave always fitted an aftermarket filter such as BMC panel.

I currently have K&N fitted to my R8 in the standard housing. I check them regularly and have never found them that dirty between cleans.

Where the filter replaces the standard air intake and leaves the cone/filter exposed in the engine bay I wouldn't bother fitting. The heat soak would be quite high and probably lessen performance against stock.

Very well said. Now I am scracthing my head back to square one......

 

[george_seamons]

The stock air box on a 1.8t becomes restrictive above 230bhp. VAG never intended their engines to be taken any higher than this. That is the reason cone filters are used.