New S4 - Steering issue already :(

[TripleD]

Nicely worded, and with video proof there's not a lot that can be contested.
With any discussions you have now you have notified them of rejection, please please please always backup the conversations with an Email so that the details of any replacement, or agreement on the way forward is documented in full.
Having been through this process with Mercedes quick 'conversations' and finance quotes get all to often misplaced and forgotten about by the dealer to the extent that they just outright lie to cover themselves.

Hope it all gets sorted and keep us updated on the progress and the potential new car

 

[Thundercliffe81]

Here's what I sent to Audi today after seeing them in person and asking them to reject the car. I'll update you all as to what happens next but I'm being very clear with them in that I do not want another moment in the car as it is just too dangerous.

Hi Tom,

Thank you for seeing me this morning to discuss my feelings and wishes regarding the on-going steering issue with my Audi S4 saloon. As mentioned in our conversation I thought it best to run through the timeline of events so you have a clear picture when you take up my wish to reject the car with Audi later today.

Thursday, 11th May

I collected the new S4 with 57 miles on the clock.

After collecting it from you in Milton Keynes my partner Kate and I went for a 45 minute drive involving some A roads before returning home to Woburn Sands. I estimate we drove for around 30 miles. Upon completing a 3-point turn to reverse onto my driveway I noticed the steering suddenly resist and a snapping/cracking sound behind the steering wheel. I left Kate at home and returned to Audi Milton Keynes where I spoke to you about the issue and we went for a short drive together where I couldn't replicate the problem.

Saturday 13th of May

I experienced the issue several times. Once when doing another turn outside my house and one at the bottom of a dual carriageway when turning left off the A5 towards Bow Brickhill, 1st exit. I returned to Audi Milton Keynes and we spoke again and also spoke to your manager, Phil Burton, who's since left the company. I sat in the car with Phil who reassured me that I could bring the car in and they would resolve it, echoing your own words.

I became even more frustrated with the car and decided to try and record the issue in the morning for you and your team.

Sunday 14th of May

I set up a camera in my car and set off to capture the issue before handing it back to you. The issue was recorded and demonstrated to you in a video and also in an email I sent over shortly after 10am. For clarity the video is here: .

The car was given back to you on the Sunday. I explained the issue was dangerous as I have to force the steering around passed a physical point of resistance before it "snaps" back to normal operations. As I explained, this happens at different speeds, on different manoeuvres and with different steering settings (comfort, auto & dynamic).

The car is unsafe to drive and I was assured it would be resolved.


Tuesday 16th May

Replacement part was installed. Car still with you as I'm unable to come over due to the birth of my son.

Wednesday 17th of May

Audi Milton Keynes service called me and said the issue has not been resolved by the new part and they've experienced it again while driving. They experienced it first hand before the replacement part was installed too. They asked if they could take the car home (I believe it was Tom's home) to test the car further for some 40 miles. I declined as adding more test miles to the car was just not on. I emailed you with my frustrations requesting a meeting on the 18th when you returned from leave. The shine of a new car was complete eroded and I wanted to discuss the matter with you.

Thursday 18th May

Audi Milton Keynes service called again now saying the issue was in fact fixed by the new part. They explained they'd removed a sealed unit behind the steering wheel and was able to replicate the steering resistance and the snapping while the unit was out of the car. They did not strip the unit down but I was assured they had indeed found the problem and the car would be delivered back to me that week. I emailed you with their findings and explained I couldn't meet you on the 18th now as I was needed to take car of my partner and baby. I suggested the 19th but shortly after sending the email I had to cancel that couldn't make a face to face with you as I was again needed at home taking care of my family. You suggested the 24th as you were away on leave. I said I'd try to get out in the car when it was returned to me to see if the issue had truly been resolved.

The car was dropped back to me that day and I drove it for 20 mins in the evening and could not replicate the problem.

Friday 19th to May 31st

Several instances of the steering issue occurred but I was never able to record it doing so until May 31st when I set up a camera for every trip. I recorded the issue twice in a 45 minute drive on the evening of the 31st after becoming even more frustrated with the car. The video is here: . Please excuse the swearing right at the end of the video - I couldn't figure out how to bleep it out.

I sent the email explaining the problem was still there and that I did not want the car any longer on grounds of safety.

Saturday June 1st

I drove my other car to Audi Milton Keynes where we spoke along with your service manager. I showed you both the video evidence of the issue and my wish to reject the car on grounds of safety and the issue being there since the day I bought the car. It is not a warranty issue where parts fail over the course of time. This dangerous safety issue of me not being able to steer the car with any confidence has been there from the first hour I picked up the car. Despite the sealed steering unit replicating the problem when it was out of the car and the part being replaced the issue continues to blight my ownership.

I have no choice but to ask you to back me with Audi in rejecting the car. I do not wish to consider a replacement car at this time. I want to reject the car, have my money refunded and to then consider my next course of action.

The issue to me is quite clear and the product I was sold was dangerously defective, and continues to be defective from the moment of sale.

Please keep me up to date with your discussions with Audi.



David

You really couldn't be more fair than you have been. I've not had the problem you've had since the first few weeks. Which is really odd as I do the same journey every day almost. And it was definitely the issue you've experienced. I've been told that people avoid launch batches of new cars because of these types of teething issues but steering is a potential danger.

I'm sorry you've had a **** experience mate. It tarnishes so much.


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[5551]

It is indeed a true pisser of a situation. I've had to stop the sale of my old Forester now as I'll be left without transport when they take the S4 back. Add that to paying for my own taxi back from Audi on the Sunday when it went in for the part swap, I'm out of pocket before even paying for the damn thing.

 

[5551]

With any discussions you have now you have notified them of rejection, please please please always backup the conversations with an Email so that the details of any replacement, or agreement on the way forward is documented in full.

Yep I'm dealing with them by email now and confirming any verbal conversations we have as well. My argument is water tight and I want the resolution to be likewise.

I am expecting Audi to put up a fight but I've been perfectly reasonable thus far but I've lost faith and patience.

 

[Dippy]

I really do feel for you @DG555 - to go from the sheer excitement of a new car to the gut-wrenching disappointment of that chain of events, and at the same time of the stress of a new baby is hard to imagine. Having read about car rejections I fear that you won't get 100% back without a fight. However I fully support your opinion that it is unsafe to drive, because you never know if that resistance/click might turn into something far worse at any time.

 

[5pot]

It is indeed a true pisser of a situation. I've had to stop the sale of my old Forester now as I'll be left without transport when they take the S4 back. Add that to paying for my own taxi back from Audi on the Sunday when it went in for the part swap, I'm out of pocket before even paying for the damn thing.

Why was you not given a courtesy car?

 

[5551]

Why was you not given a courtesy car?

I told them I didn't want one but they didn't have a driver to take me home so I said I'd get my own taxi and wait outside. Would have been nice to have it paid but hey.

I have an A3 diesel saloon today but I've no intention to drive it. They registered it for me to use this morning which was good of them. I have no issues with the dealership at all - they've been very good aside from the taxi thing.

 

[Jcbmally]

I told them I didn't want one but they didn't have a driver to take me home so I said I'd get my own taxi and wait outside. Would have been nice to have it paid but hey.

I have an A3 diesel saloon today but I've no intention to drive it. They registered it for me to use this morning which was good of them. I have no issues with the dealership at all - they've been very good aside from the taxi thing.

You can hear and see quite clearly the issue your having in your videos mate. I think you have been rather patient but enough is enough. Like other members have stated wright down everything and copy, companies will always do their best to "get out of jail".
Will you get another Audi or will you move on.

 

[5551]

I'll take my money back then have a good long sit down and decide what to do next. Whether that's an Audi, something else or I run my Forester to 250,000 miles I don't know. I won't accept a straight replacement car though.

 

[Ad72]

I'll take my money back then have a good long sit down and decide what to do next. Whether that's an Audi, something else or I run my Forester to 250,000 miles I don't know. I won't accept a straight replacement car though.

Having been through a rejection process before with a different manufacturer it really does depend on how well the dealer support you. Out of interest, why would you not have another S4 or do you mean one identical? I'm trying to establish if yours is an isolated case or a known issue but my dealer has gone quiet on me ref my current S4 on order!!


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[Jcbmally]

I'll take my money back then have a good long sit down and decide what to do next. Whether that's an Audi, something else or I run my Forester to 250,000 miles I don't know. I won't accept a straight replacement car though.

I'm guessing the Forester is a good car then. I am a firm believer that once a car has been troublesome, you never feel the same about the brand. But that's just me. There are many great quality cars out there nowadays.

 

[5551]

Out of interest, why would you not have another S4 or do you mean one identical? I'm trying to establish if yours is an isolated case or a known issue but my dealer has gone quiet on me ref my current S4 on order!!
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My reason for not wanting a replacement is because they've found the issue, replaced the part and the issue persists so the issue is clearly a manufacturing one. I've no faith in the product and had I known this was there to start with I would never have bought one. I also don't want to have to get another S4 only to go through this all again. I'm within my rights to politely ask the to take it back and refund me.

 

[5551]

I'm guessing the Forester is a good car then. I am a firm believer that once a car has been troublesome, you never feel the same about the brand. But that's just me. There are many great quality cars out there nowadays.

Yep it's a wonderful car. Bought it at 109,000 and 47k later it hasn't missed a beat. Truly solid engineering made to last.

 

[Jcbmally]

Yep it's a wonderful car. Bought it at 109,000 and 47k later it hasn't missed a beat. Truly solid engineering made to last.

 

[Ad72]

My reason for not wanting a replacement is because they've found the issue, replaced the part and the issue persists so the issue is clearly a manufacturing one. I've no faith in the product and had I known this was there to start with I would never have bought one. I also don't want to have to get another S4 only to go through this all again. I'm within my rights to politely ask the to take it back and refund me.

I understand and totally agree. I personally think your rejection will be accepted as the laws have recently changed to protect us against faulty goods. You've done everything right and been more than patient. I also agree about the manufacturing issue comment hence my reservations at continuing to go ahead with my S4 purchase. Any way I hope it all works out for you


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[5551]

I wouldn't be too worried. If you do experience the issue then you can hopefully point to the successful resolution I'm waiting for.

 

[5551]

Dealer called this morning to confirm I still wanted to reject and they're proceeding with it after a brief chat with the dealership sales manager.

It'll no be handled by the dealership quality manager who will talk to Audi directly. I should get more news after the weekend.

 

[Ad72]

Good news, it's still a shame you didn't have the new car experience you should have had and I hope what ever car you end up with is a good'n. I have had written confirmation from my dealer that they have had no issues with any S4's supplied by them and believe that if Audi thought they had a problem with the A4 steering they would sort it and have reassure me that my car will not be affected. His e-mail together with this thread does give me some peace of mind although to say I'm still nervous is an understatement!!

 

[TripleD]

That's good news, if you have the backing from the dealer, then it helps.
Lets see what happens now, would be surprised if they don't offer you something else with a nice discount attached.

 

[Dippy]

@Ad72 - I have had Audi's long enough to know that Audi, possibly no different from other manufacturer, will only recognise any issue is a "known" issue when they have no option but to admit it. My B5 S4 was a great car, but it was hit by a few failures which, after a web search, were clearly common issues. The windscreen washer pump leak for example was pretty much guaranteed to happen on the B5. Of course all happened out of warranty and I had to pay for repairs myself.

In this case if your steering does what @DG555 's car does, but when you are out of warranty, Audi will charge you for repairs but (if you're like me) you'll look back on this and feel that you have had to pay for Audi's design problem.

 

[Ad72]

@Ad72 - I have had Audi's long enough to know that Audi, possibly no different from other manufacturer, will only recognise any issue is a "known" issue when they have no option but to admit it. My B5 S4 was a great car, but it was hit by a few failures which, after a web search, were clearly common issues. The windscreen washer pump leak for example was pretty much guaranteed to happen on the B5. Of course all happened out of warranty and I had to pay for repairs myself.

In this case if your steering does what @DG555 's car does, but when you are out of warranty, Audi will charge you for repairs but (if you're like me) you'll look back on this and feel that you have had to pay for Audi's design problem.

I think all manufacturers are the same to be honest. I don't intend keeping it for any longer than 3 years but don't want the hassle of a new car rejection, been there and it's not a nice place to be. Just been offered an E92 M3.......


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[5551]

I was after an E92 with the competition pack on it. Superb bit of kit.

 

[Ad72]

I was after an E92 with the competition pack on it. Superb bit of kit.

You're not helping!!!


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[5551]

Service just called. They've replicated the issue in the garage and also sent a report to Audi for guidance. This is for information purposes as they know I've rejected the car. So that's video and service proof the issue is still there. Good news I think.

 

[Ad72]

Good news as the dealer is on your side and have replicated the fault so no disputing it's still faulty. I'm impressed how quickly they have got to this stage. I'd be interested to know what the fault is when they do get to the bottom of it.


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[5551]

I'll be sure to get all the info from them. Others may have this and it could be a life saver.

 

[5551]

Spoke with the Market Quality Manager at the dealer today and in her own words, after seeing the issue herself in the workshop and in the evidence I've provided, "if it happened to me I'd be doing the same thing [in rejecting the car]."

She asked if I wanted a replacement car or just my money back and I've asked for my money back. She did see if there was any way they could keep me as a customer, which is a reasonable request, but I said no - not at this point anyway.

Next up she's sent all the details over to Audi and will also speak to VW Finance on my behalf so they're aware too - since it's legally their car.

I should hear back from Audi within a week but she's put it down as a priority to get this all finished as soon as possible.

 

[Ad72]

Your dealer sounds really good and it looks like you will get a full refund. If you did stay with Audi I bet you could get a good deal. Any news on the issue and if it is a know fault or a one off?


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[5551]

Everyone has said this is the first they've ever seen of it and I don't have the full diagnostics report yet but I know it has been sent off to Audi already. I might pop in later in the week and see if I can get some more information out of them. The only car I'd be interested in would be an RS6 but they're out of budget now. Annoying the S4 was the best of the models and I don't want to get one again now.

I'll probably buy a case of red wine and have a think about what to do next.

 

[Ad72]

An RS6 would certainly be a nice upgrade, no harm in asking what incentives they could offer to keep you as a customer such as a really good price on a new or nearly new RS6. I've been in the same situation with BMW and if the dealer is willing to play ball as yours seems to it puts you in a good position. No car manufacture is without issues, it's how they are handled that matters and Audi so far seem to have done everything right. Whether you give them another chance is up to you but the grass isn't always greener so my advice would be to have that drink and tread carefully.


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[5551]

I don't think they'd be able to get an Rs6 to me for the same money so I'm going to take my money back. It's funny you mention the grass being greener as I've been with Subarus for many years and this was my first walk on new grass It's a shame Subaru don't make anything modern and decent any more.

 

[cuke2u]

They've never made decent interiors thats for sure....

 

[Jimbbobw1977]

Who cares about sparkly soft touch interiors - the engineering and quality underneath a Suburu would be more desirable.

I was once loaned a Outback Legacy 2.0 boxer D as a courtesy car, what a great car

 

[Simonb1975]

True, Subaru's were for driving not fondling inside.

 

[cuke2u]

Not for me sorry, cheap black plastics do nothing for me when I have to sit there look and touch them. Maybe the Legacy makes for a good workhorse on a farm but I live where there is tarmac. But this?

 

[TripleD]

Not for me sorry, cheap black plastics do nothing for me when I have to sit there look and touch them..

Have to agree, the car itself engineering wise and reliability wise is excellent, but when you sit in the drivers seat you want to be in nice surroundings and not feel like an 8 year old has gone at it with a glue gun and a halfords rejects box.

 

[Spaceman_RS3]

Trust me in a proper Impreza sti your not worried about what your sitting in or touching your eyes are firmly fixed out a window at times a side window

 

[Daggerit]

Trust me in a proper Impreza sti your not worried about what your sitting in or touching your eyes are firmly fixed out a window at times a side window

Having had a workmates 350+ bhp STI to look after for a while I'll agree with this. But the problem is, as soon as you slow down to less crazy speeds and actually drive like a normal person then it becomes a rather terrible place to sit. The ride is really harsh, controls are pretty crap, exhaust drones (albeit an aftermarket Milltek job), there's no creature comforts, etc., etc.

The S4 is faster in a straight line and won't lose a lot in the corners and yet can be a real luxury cruiser too. That's my thoughts on it. And how I justify paying 4x as much for my car than his. Haha.

 

[Dippy]

I enjoyed driving a scooby for a while and then I grew up

 

[Spaceman_RS3]

I thought they were ok after number five I moved on don't like the newer 2.5 stuff. I'd still buy another 2005 sti at some point for fun