Saloon Drive system malfunction!

[Spinstorm]

So this issue isn’t resolved but I am feeling annoyed so I feel good time to vent.

This story features special guest star @DJAlix

On my way to get my BlackVue cameras reinstalled into my RS3 I get a drive system malfunction; RPM limited to 4400. The first time I assumed it was just a gremlin. Turned the car off and then on again and all okay.

Except it happened another 4 times after that. I get to DJAlix and he scans it and it appears there is an issue with the fuel getting to the engine or rail sensor (not exactly clear). We call Audi Assist (AA) the guy says he think it’s because I only had 35 Miles of fuel in the car so that caused an error. He won’t recover it to the dealer.

So now I had to drive it back to the dealer and hope I get back before they close so they can check my brand new car... and of course that assumes that the car doesn’t do it again. As it almost didn’t start the last time I turned it off. I could get stuck and wait another 2 hours for recovery.

(This post is subject to change in case I misunderstood or missed any details out as I am currently having a drink in a joe and the juice and left the AA guy and DJAlix together as he is still installing my cameras.)

 

[Hal Adams]

This sounds like a known fault in the fuel delivery. Discussed here a few times.
I’d take ip the refusal to take the car back to dealer with Audi Assist and the AA and demand a suitable compensation.
Tell the AA man - if you see him again - that the reason fuel delivery sustems have swirl pots on injection engines is to allow one to drive with low fuel levels...

 

[AudiNutta]

Following this, hopefully all is handled well.

 

[Jonny B]

So this issue isn’t resolved but I am feeling annoyed so I feel good time to vent.

This story features special guest star @DJAlix

On my way to get my BlackVue cameras reinstalled into my RS3 I get a drive system malfunction; RPM limited to 4400. The first time I assumed it was just a gremlin. Turned the car off and then on again and all okay.

Except it happened another 4 times after that. I get to DJAlix and he scans it and it appears there is an issue with the fuel getting to the engine or rail sensor (not exactly clear). We call Audi Assist (AA) the guy says he think it’s because I only had 35 Miles of fuel in the car so that caused an error. He won’t recover it to the dealer.

So now I had to drive it back to the dealer and hope I get back before they close so they can check my brand new car... and of course that assumes that the car doesn’t do it again. As it almost didn’t start the last time I turned it off. I could get stuck and wait another 2 hours for recovery.

(This post is subject to change in case I misunderstood or missed any details out as I am currently having a drink in a joe and the juice and left the AA guy and DJAlix together as he is still installing my cameras.)

Good luck hope u get sorted...

 

[Spinstorm]

This sounds like a known fault in the fuel delivery. Discussed here a few times.
I’d take ip the refusal to take the car back to dealer with Audi Assist and the AA and demand a suitable compensation.
Tell the AA man - if you see him again - that the reason fuel delivery sustems have swirl pots on injection engines is to allow one to drive with low fuel levels...

Can you explain this please?
What caused it and what is the fix?

The AA report says Fault code P0087 rail pressure bank 1 pressure too low. He said he thought the issue was possible air in the tank which was down to the low fuel.

I’m almost back at mine and it hasn’t recurred.

If someone here knows what the actual issue and fix is that would be helpful so when I go to the dealer tomorrow it’s not a wild goose chase.

 

[T-800]

I had similar issue on my 2015 RS3
About a couple of weeks after picking it up one day it started then cut out and wouldn’t start.
I left it for a few hours and it fired up ok and had no further issues until over a year later, when it started doing the same thing, starting up then cutting out.
Had the Audi assist guy out who diagnosed low fuel pressure error (already knew this as I’d scanned it before he arrived) and the Fuel pump module under the rear seat needed to be replaced to cure it.
Sure enough once changed by the Audi Assist guy (best one I’ve come across) had no other issues....

He did warn me that he had seen G247(high pressure fuel) sensors failing and causing the same issue, so a few days later I went and bought one and changed it myself, just to be sure.

 

[Hal Adams]

Can you explain this please?
What caused it and what is the fix?

The AA report says Fault code P0087 rail pressure bank 1 pressure too low. He said he thought the issue was possible air in the tank which was down to the low fuel.

I’m almost back at mine and it hasn’t recurred.

If someone here knows what the actual issue and fix is that would be helpful so when I go to the dealer tomorrow it’s not a wild goose chase.

T800 has described it , and I think someone else here had similar the other day.

 

[Spinstorm]

Yes but no idea what the cause or fix was in that other thread @T800


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[royalsteve68]

I had the same issue on my saloon 2 weeks ago. audi dealer couldn't find the fault and wondered if it was the autowatch ghost...usual bull blame someone else.

I'd been driving for about 1.5 hours is dtiving rain in heavy traffic then hot stuck in a massive traffic jam only had 80 miles of fuel left it spluttered them the engine cut out, restarted and the drive sysyem malfunction error appeared with the limp mode limiter of 4000 or so revs max limiter.

Audi found no issue.

 

[T-800]

This was my 2015 PFL when I scanned it

The Audi Assist guy said it would have to show low fuel pressure for Audi to allow the Pump module to be changed, otherwise it’s a no.

 

[Spinstorm]

My engine emission control light (the yellow light that looks like an engine) came up just as I was parking. No fault comes up when I scanned it with OBD11. I don’t have my own VCDS to check with.

So you guys @T-800 and @royalsteve68 are saying that basically Audi won’t touch it unless it happens while they are in the car? Even with your scan and photos?!


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[T-800]

My engine emission control light (the yellow light that looks like an engine) came up just as I was parking. No fault comes up when I scanned it with OBD11. I don’t have my own VCDS to check with.

So you guys @T-800 and @royalsteve68 are saying that basically Audi won’t touch it unless it happens while they are in the car? Even with your scan and photos?!


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It’ll store the error code anyway.

What the Audi Assist guy did say was it had to have the error code of low fuel pressure before Audi would Authorise the replacement.
A new fuel pump module is around £120 and some new rear seat clips.

Don’t forget though I’m referring to a PFL car.

Can’t believe Audi are still fitting Faulty modules to FL cars......

 

[Spinstorm]

And the emission control light? anyone seen that!?

This isn't great as I have a feeling they won't find any issues with the car and return it to me and I will literally have to break down someone for it to be something that will fix. And in the meantime it spoils my enjoyment of the car and also risks messing up my work by being unreliable; not to mention if it stalled out on the motorway.

 

[royalsteve68]

I had the fuel pressure pump replaced on the s3 when it was about 2 years old after an alarming incident driving home, where the car suddenly lost power on the outside lane of the m4 motoway.

The fuel guage was misreporting too so that and the pump were fixed

When the drive system malfunction issue occurred on the rs3 I thought the fault was almost identical to the issue I had on the s3

Seems to be a common issue with audis

 

[DJAlix]

And the emission control light? anyone seen that!?

This isn't great as I have a feeling they won't find any issues with the car and return it to me and I will literally have to break down someone for it to be something that will fix. And in the meantime it spoils my enjoyment of the car and also risks messing up my work by being unreliable; not to mention if it stalled out on the motorway.

Will send you the scan I performed before Mr AA came out. After his diagnostics and test drives he cleared the error.

 

[T-800]

As it was explained to me...

The Fuel tank pump module varies the voltage depending upon engine demand, it’s at low speed manoeuvring (car park speeds etc) that the cut out will happen, the module is applying a very small voltage to the pump because demand is low and this is where the issue shows up, apparently it can just stop the low voltage and that equals a cut out.

After 10 mins or so the car then starts normally.

When I asked why could they not just update the software in the module itself, he said Audi wouldn’t, instead they just replace the module full stop.

 

[Spinstorm]

As it was explained to me...

The Fuel tank pump module varies the voltage depending upon engine demand, it’s at low speed manoeuvring (car park speeds etc) that the cut out will happen, the module is applying a very small voltage to the pump because demand is low and this is where the issue shows up, apparently it can just stop the low voltage and that equals a cut out.

After 10 mins or so the car then starts normally.

When I asked why could they not just update the software in the module itself, he said Audi wouldn’t, instead they just replace the module full stop.

So if this happens the solution is to leave the car for a period and clear the error if possible? Because just turning the engine on and off just seemed to make it go away for several minutes and then it would pop back up again.

What about the engine emission control light?

 

[DJAlix]

The error from today:

Address 01: Engine (------DAZA) Labels:. 07K-907-309-V1.clb
Part No SW: 8V0 907 404 E HW: 07K 907 309 E
Component: R5 2.5l TFSI H22 0003
Revision: 53H22000
Coding: 0A250032246601033620
Shop #: WSC 06385 790 00016
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM25TFS0118V0907404E 001003
ROD: EV_ECM25TFS0118V0907404E.rod
VCID: 3B36D25BB20ED49DA0-806E

1 Fault Found:
2838 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0087 00 [237] - Too Low
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 707 km
Date: 2018.02.13
Time: 13:59:31

Engine speed: 1215.50 /min
Normed load value: 30.2 %
Vehicle speed: 1 km/h
Coolant temperature: 102 ∞C
Intake air temperature: 55 ∞C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 12.480 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3

Readiness: 0000 0000

 

[Hal Adams]

Was it not mentioned on another thread, or even forum, that Audi had admitted there were some fuel pump modules with old software installed?

Either way, you had low pressure in a fuel rail. On a new car, this is worthy of a detailed explanation and rectification. Because you had 35 miles left on the tank is complete garbage.

Make sure you get an explanation at least on why the AA took it on themselves to diagnose it as they did and make out it is your fault

 

[D0C]

Was it not mentioned on another thread, or even forum, that Audi had admitted there were some fuel pump modules with old software installed?

Either way, you had low pressure in a fuel rail. On a new car, this is worthy of a detailed explanation and rectification. Because you had 35 miles left on the tank is complete garbage.

Make sure you get an explanation at least on why the AA took it on themselves to diagnose it as they did and make out it is your fault

I know I probably shouldn't, but I regularly get down to 0 miles range!

 

[T-800]

Was it not mentioned on another thread, or even forum, that Audi had admitted there were some fuel pump modules with old software installed?

Either way, you had low pressure in a fuel rail. On a new car, this is worthy of a detailed explanation and rectification. Because you had 35 miles left on the tank is complete garbage.

Make sure you get an explanation at least on why the AA took it on themselves to diagnose it as they did and make out it is your fault

Hal i was told that it was more than likely a manufacturing error with the modules.....

Which surprises me a little as the Assist guy said there was a chassis number range of affected RS3's that Audi had identified as having the 'bad' module.

Perhaps the same supplier has gone and screwed up again on the new car......

 

[royalsteve68]

strange how my audi dealer didn't know what caused my drive system malfunction and just took the easy route and blamed a third party immobiliser, AWS

I personally think its similar to the S3 issue i had and a poor quality fuel pressure sensor or pump

When i had the loss of power on the S3 i had low fuel but not the error message (and also a misreport on the fuel gauge - said 150 miles but i guess less than 80 miles).

When, I got the error on the RS3 i also had low fuel - 80 or 90 miles

 

[Hal Adams]

Let’s start a thread titled ‘idiot reasonings of Audi dealers’....

 

[Spinstorm]

Audi had the car all day and couldn’t find any issues - the fault didn’t reappear (because the AA guy cleared it).

So my options were to either leave it with them when the problem may not happen or just take it back; so I have it back now. I would rather use my new car and if it occurs again not let the fault be cleared.

The technicians thoughts on why the issue occured with air in the fuel causing the low pressure although even he said that a new car shouldn’t do that. So I am going to keep my eye on it.

@royalsteve68 - 80 miles is not low fuel! It’s 80 miles! Even for them to suggest 35 miles is low fuel when its 2 bars is an insult.

Also two other things; firstly the wheel issue with some markings/indentations they are going to see if they can replace the wheel under warranty.
And they have also put my S3 up now on the site - they gave me £26k for it and they have listed it at £32.5k... https://usedcars.audi.co.uk/usedcar/audi/s3/s3-saloon/petrol/automatic/310bhp-all-wheel-drive-blue-1_GBR00149349728.htm#/i/s|10,AADD|1024,51.34099,-0.1447,20/l|12,1,t_geo,U

 

[Hal Adams]

I wish you asked them how air could possibly get into the fuel rail in your circumstance

Did you take up your treatment with the AA. Add to their not doing their job, the clearing of the fault code - I am sure they should not have done that.

 

[Spinstorm]

I wish you asked them how air could possibly get into the fuel rail in your circumstance

Did you take up your treatment with the AA. Add to their not doing their job, the clearing of the fault code - I am sure they should not have done that.

Low fuel - I don’t disagree with you but I am not a mechanic. As for the AA no I didn’t mention it. I am letting this go this one time. I know what needs to be done if it happens again. I’m not happy but we all know that essentially everyone at a dealer is clueless and so if it’s not looking them in the face they have no ability to make a decision themselves.

 

[Phil3]

Hmm bit annoying they couldn’t read the fault or give a reasonable answer... saying about having low fuel, that’s just a fob off at its best

 

[Spinstorm]

Hmm bit annoying they couldn’t read the fault or give a reasonable answer... saying about having low fuel, that’s just a fob off at its best

Totally agree but the technician did say that he thought that wasn't right and should be looked at so he did seem to want a solution. I am often in london traffic and will be tomorrow and Friday so if its a problem thats going to happen again it may well do it this week.

@DJAlix did a great job with my front and back Blackvue camera install.

Here is the video report they sent mentioning the wheel and error:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GcuLg7ESlBgx8hNA2

 

[Spinstorm]

The issue hasn’t happened since Tuesday and I have been in London traffic. So keeping an eye open but maybe just maybe the problem was a one time thing that wouldn’t clear because I didn’t leave the car for long enough to reset until I arrived at DJAlix. Or maybe its something else but it hasn’t reoccurred yet.

 

[Hal Adams]

Well, I hope it has cleared, but if it does come back, insist the dealer does something. And in case you end up with the same after sales 'technician', point out to him two things: air in a fuel rail will not put the engine into limp mode, it would probably cut out altogether and second, injected cars have a thing called swirl pot that is an intermediary tank after the main tank that is always fuel of fuel to prevent air getting into the high pressure line for as long as there is fuel in the main tank - as you had 35 miles left, that means at least a gallon plus a safety gallon - ample fuel to drive on.

 

[JamesCrs3]

Totally agree but the technician did say that he thought that wasn't right and should be looked at so he did seem to want a solution. I am often in london traffic and will be tomorrow and Friday so if its a problem thats going to happen again it may well do it this week.

@DJAlix did a great job with my front and back Blackvue camera install.

Here is the video report they sent mentioning the wheel and error:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GcuLg7ESlBgx8hNA2

That 67 plate! How old is the car, about 5 and a half months old?

 

[Spinstorm]

Well, I hope it has cleared, but if it does come back, insist the dealer does something. And in case you end up with the same after sales 'technician', point out to him two things: air in a fuel rail will not put the engine into limp mode, it would probably cut out altogether and second, injected cars have a thing called swirl pot that is an intermediary tank after the main tank that is always fuel of fuel to prevent air getting into the high pressure line for as long as there is fuel in the main tank - as you had 35 miles left, that means at least a gallon plus a safety gallon - ample fuel to drive on.

I agree with everything you said. My hope is that it was simply a glitch and it won't return. I am sure everyone here has had their car behave wierd at least once; maybe skip a gear or give a warning out etc. But only time will tell.

@JamesCrs3 I will get a private plate in a couple of months so I don't get annoyed by 18 plates!

I would add that RS3's are very very rare; I have maybe seen 3 in a year in total. So I think that it may not be quite as annoying as if it was an S3!

As far as people reacting to my car - I feel like there are two kinds. The person who doesn't know what an RS3 is and don't realise its special UNTIL they hear the noise. And then they have no idea what it was and they are totally confused. And then the people who do know who may be in other S/M/AMG cars. Mainly the enjoyment comes from the noise.

I've also been playing with the shift lights tonight although not for long as the car is still running in. I really struggle to get this car to DSG fart because it goes faster in lower gears so it doesn't need to change so that happens very rarely. Obviously the exhaust makes plenty of noise anyway and the pops and bangs are always fun. Although the bangs aren't that often I do get popping quite a bit. I would love to get some DSG farts though, that was the noise I wanted on my S3 in dynamic.

 

[JamesCrs3]

@Spinstorm I haven't seen a single RS3 facelift on the road yet.

 

[Spinstorm]

@Spinstorm I haven't seen a single RS3 facelift on the road yet.

I have seen 2 facelift and one PFL in London in the last year. And that’s in London.

I feel like they are more rare than supercars in London. I’ve seen more Ferrari’s, Lamborghini and McLaren in that time.

 

[Phil3]

I seen two yesterday... a 67 plate nardo saloon and a 67 plate black sportback... I’m guessing they’re both pretty old and past it now being on 67 plates

 

[Spinstorm]

I seen two yesterday... a 67 plate nardo saloon and a 67 plate black sportback... I’m guessing they’re both pretty old and past it now being on 67 plates

HAHA very funny!

 

[BottomFeeder]

67 plates are SO last season

 

[Behind The Bins]

I don’t think I could possibly drive a 67 plate what would the neighbours say

Hahahaha

 

[Phil3]

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one thinking that

 

[Spinstorm]

Right now you guys aren’t driving an RS3 at all so suck it