Acceleration (0-60mph)

[Simon L]

Thanks veeeight. I'll stop hijacking this 0-60 thread now.

Although I am still interested in 0-60 without LC - which would be the more realistic day-to-day scenario. Setting up LC seems too fiddly from what I have read, to be of any real use. Traffic lights are likely to have changed before its setup!

The 0-60 figs are well documented on the world wide web..................as to their accuracy, well who knows?

I'm with you on the launch control though, 7 months on and can't say I've bothered! I couldn't use it with the missus in the car anyway she'd go absolutely ape-sh*t!! lol

 

[Supa Koopa]

Tried it for the first time last week after having owned the car for 6 months. Still not sure I did it right as the boost gauge filled up and then started falling back again, but I let go of the break pedal and it was like '.... me that's rapid'.

Got to agree not much use though for any normal day to day driving.

 

[OliS3]

Thanks veeeight. I'll stop hijacking this 0-60 thread now.

Although I am still interested in 0-60 without LC - which would be the more realistic day-to-day scenario. Setting up LC seems too fiddly from what I have read, to be of any real use. Traffic lights are likely to have changed before its setup!

As long as you have the TSC on sport (which i always do anyway) then there isn't much else to do. Clearly it won't work in comfort mode though lol

 

[James 123]

Hi Guys

I'm contemplating changing my S3 8P (manual) for a new/nearly new S3 8V (S-Tronic), or may wait for facelift. I drove an S3 8V at the Audi Showcase day the other year and I was blown away by the speed of the gear changes of the DSG. BUT...

What is the DSG like on a day-to-day basis? I've read the other thread on here about them being "hit and miss". Now I see you guys mentioning stuff like "getting out of junctions is interesting sometimes" - WTF!!

Can you go into more detail?

I think everyone loves the old "traffic-light-gp" sometimes and my current S3 (manual) has been excellent in this respect, wet or dry.

But with DSG and no Launch Control, what is the S3 8V like? Can you put your left foot on the brake, apply the revs with your right, then let the brake off and go? Kind-of a "manual" launch?

Sorry for all the questions, but going from a manual to an auto is quite big decision (if I do decide to have another S3).

Cheers

AL

Don't let these comments regarding dsg and awkward moments at junctions/roundabouts deter you, as a day to day drive dsg imho is a great thing to have. If your interested in your daily driving revolving around nipping out dangerously at roundabouts ( which am sure your not ) then maybe a manual may be the better place to stay, either way once that quarter of a second of turbo spool is outta the way you've more than enough power to get your *** out. Dsg may be classed as lazy driving by some and not as quick off the mark without launch control, but this is day to day driving were on about and there's nothing better than having the option to just drive, use your paddles or if you want to even use the gear knob. This is my first dsg car and I don't think I'll ever go back to a manual. Hope this extra opinion helps in the bigger picture.

 

[Simon L]

Don't let these comments regarding dsg and awkward moments at junctions/roundabouts deter you, as a day to day drive dsg imho is a great thing to have. If your interested in your daily driving revolving around nipping out dangerously at roundabouts ( which am sure your not ) then maybe a manual may be the better place to stay, either way once that quarter of a second of turbo spool is outta the way you've more than enough power to get your *** out. Dsg may be classed as lazy driving by some and not as quick off the mark without launch control, but this is day to day driving were on about and there's nothing better than having the option to just drive, use your paddles or if you want to even use the gear knob. This is my first dsg car and I don't think I'll ever go back to a manual. Hope this extra opinion helps in the bigger picture.

Yep, that's exactly how I would describe it mate but unfortunately there are those that will say the complete opposite, and even go as far as to say it's outright dangerous at junctions.................

 

[veeeight]

And so it starts...... again .......

 

[hood]

I'm not going into the trenches on this one

 

[pburv]

And so it starts...... again .......

Only if you let it...

 

[veeeight]

I just provide irrefutable facts and data

Others provide the arguments

 

[pburv]

I just provide irrefutable facts and data

Others provide the arguments

Sorry mate ..Was only 'bating' you..No harm meant....

 

[Martinbanshee]

DSG/S-Tronic being dangerous at junctions is not a fact, just someones opinion. If it was dangerous it wouldn't be fitted in cars for many years. The issue with DSG/S-Tronic is some people expect it to behave like a manual box, SPOILER, it won't.

I recommend test driving both to see what box you like best but I find it perfectly safe and have zero issues with it, it's a great box and I'd never buy a manual again.

 

[veeeight]

I have never offered DSG being dangerous at junctions as a "fact".

I have no idea who has, but I defy you to find one post from me saying that.

The facts are as follows;

1. DSG without launch control, is slower than a manual gearbox, out of a junction.

2. DSG without launch control, is slower between 0-30 mph (relevant to getting out of junctions) than a manual gearbox.



Those two statements above, are irrefutable facts.

 

[Martinbanshee]

Cool, so you agree DSG is perfectly safe, just checking

 

[Bristle Hound]

once that quarter of a second of turbo spool is outta the way you've more than enough power to get your *** out.

Pleased I don't have the probs with turbo spool ...

 

[veeeight]

Cool, so you agree DSG is perfectly safe, just checking

I wouldn't say "perfectly"


(as there's nothing "perfect" about the DSG)

 

[veeeight]

Pleased I don't have the probs with turbo spool ...

Supercharger FTW !!!

 

[h5djr]

Just out of interest, according to Audi the s-tronic version of the S3 is quicker 0-62mph that than a manual - 4.8 secs as opposed to 5.2 secs. Presumably because the s-tronic can change gear quicker and under full power.

My own 2.0TDI-184 s-tronic quattro is certainly 'safe' pulling out quickly from junctions, especially with the Start/Stop turned off. Cannot directly compare the 0-62 figures because Audi do not offer a manual quattro version but again according to Audi the manual 184 (non-quattro) figure is 7.4 secs whilst the s-tronic 184 (s-tronic) is 6.9 secs.

 

[veeeight]

Just out of interest, according to Audi the s-tronic version of the S3 is quicker 0-62mph that than a manual - 4.8 secs as opposed to 5.2 secs. Presumably because the s-tronic can change gear quicker and under full power.

Yes, faster changes, and this figure is derived when using Launch Control on the DSG.

Without Launch Control, the Manual is slightly quicker than the DSG 0-62 mph.

 

[Blackwhite]

I just provide irrefutable facts and data

Others provide the arguments

Agreed. Others start the arguments. And we have the right to defend ourselves.

 

[h5djr]

When it comes down to it, who cares about differences of less than a second 0-60 anyway. I certainly don't.

 

[veeeight]

When it comes down to it, who cares about differences of less than a second 0-60 anyway. I certainly don't.

So why have you quoted 0-62 times, and commented in a thread titled "Acceleration (0-60mph)?

 

[veeeight]

When it comes down to it, who cares about differences of less than a second 0-60 anyway. I certainly don't.

However I do agree with the sentiment that unless you're just interested in straight line speed, acceleration, or doing the Crail Raceway (which a few people are), then 0-62 times are mainly pub bragging numbers.


In the real world however, for example, getting out of busy junctions, the 0-30 mph times are much more relevant, so in the space of 100 yards, half a second difference would make a lot of difference between a DSG and a Manual Car driver choosing to get out in that gap.


You lose half a second in the first 0-30 mph sprint if you start DSG without launch control.

With LC 0-50kmh 1.7s
Without LC 0-50kmh 2.3s


To be fair to the DSG box, it's not entirely the fault of the gearbox, it is the combination of the DSG with a largish turbo, which takes time to spool, all adding up to the "lag"' time.

The S3 is slower into gaps in traffic, than a humble A1, or 1.2 Ibiza. Combination of a heavier car, and larger turbo,

 

[Martinbanshee]

But..when you're observant and drive with due care none of that matters. Surely you don't buy an S3 based on its ability to nip into small gaps in traffic?
It's very obvious part of the problem here is driving style.
Some of us manage to drive round town or join roundabouts without other vehicles suddenly breathing down our neck. With DSG you sometimes have to preempt situations, if you haven't already realised that then you probably never will.
If you are the type of driver that suddenly wants to dive into a small gap that just appeared then you'll come a cropper eventually, but it won't be the cars fault.

 

[veeeight]

It's very simple.

With DSG & turbo combination, you have to make allowances.

(That you needn't have made, had you been driving a manual and naturally aspirated car. )

It's just one of the downsides of the DSG. No biggie.

 

[Martinbanshee]

Totally agree V8

 

[h5djr]

It's very simple.

With DSG & turbo combination, you have to make allowances.

(That you needn't have made, had you been driving a manual and naturally aspirated car. )

It's just one of the downsides of the DSG. No biggie.

Agree. Drive to suit the car and the conditions. Figures quoted by manufacturers are only useful to compare one car with another.

 

[sjbarneS3]

Your not kidding mate...Will have to put up with boring old text I'm afraid......Like I've said before.....1984

 

[Simon L]

Come on mate, no need to be like that about manual gearboxes........................

 

[Daveotto]

For what's it's worth, my opinion on acceleration and roundabouts......

Irrespective of manual or DSG the S3 is more than quick enough out of the blocks onto busy roundabouts if needed. The biggest danger is once you are on the roundabout and coming towards the next entry/exit when other less able (quick) cars think they can get on in front of you. Invariably you end up braking as they underestimate how fast you are approaching and secondly overestimate how quick they are .......about half a dozen such occasions in the last couple of days confirms my view on this!!!

 

[sjbarneS3]

For what's it's worth, my opinion on acceleration and roundabouts......

Irrespective of manual or DSG the S3 is more than quick enough out of the blocks onto busy roundabouts if needed. The biggest danger is once you are on the roundabout and coming towards the next entry/exit when other less able (quick) cars think they can get on in front of you. Invariably you end up braking as they underestimate how fast you are approaching and secondly overestimate how quick they are .......about half a dozen such occasions in the last couple of days confirms my view on this!!!

What he said Exactly......

 

[veeeight]

A 1.2 Seat Ibiza is quicker off the blocks out of a junction than a S3 with turbo lag and DSG


There's only so much you can go towards defending the heavier S3, with a large turbo, and a DSG in non launch control.


The salient point remains.

You have to make allowances (drive around the issue) on a S3 with DSG.

 

[veeeight]

Do other manufacturers cope with this better?

Some of them do. They have twin scroll turbos, variable vane turbos etc. all of which aid the fundamental issue.

The standard IHI turbo as fitted to the S3, is not a sophisticated turbo.


Here's a comparison of two cars, both in non Launch Control mode.

 

[DrEskimo]

Sorry to weigh in on a S3 thread, but I had this issue on my 2.0TFSI all the time. Would have to stick it in S to make sure I had a fighting chance at any jct.

Since swapping to the S5 I have no problems at all. Wondered if it was the swap from Multitronic to S-Tronic, move from FWD to quattro or just the extra horses, but I had never cottoned on to the fact that I've moved from a turbo to a supercharger. Likely to explain the major reason why I no longer experience it given the issues S3 users are having.

 

[veeeight]

^ Yep.

Supercharger. No lag (relative).

Instant Power
Immediate Power Delivery
(relative)

At the end of the day, it is possible to close the gap between turbo lag and supercharger lag, e.g.: both with correctly sized turbos/superchargers, but sometimes manufacturers want to stick in large (relatively unsophisticated) turbos onto 2 litre engines and claim 300PS, while drivability takes a back seat.

 

[alijnclarke]

Audi could learn a lot from Porsche's PDK, that truly is a brilliant gearbox

 

[h5djr]

So why have you quoted 0-62 times, and commented in a thread titled "Acceleration (0-60mph)?

Audi could learn a lot from Porsche's PDK, that truly is a brilliant gearbox

And probably costs twice as much to make! The DSG is designed for mass produced cars whereas the Porsche is not yet in the same field.

 

[RGBARGEE]

Having driven a fair few miles in a Porsche with PDK box and various Audis with S Tronic and Tiptronic I am not sure I would agree that the PDK is a better product.

 

[alijnclarke]

Having driven a fair few miles in a Porsche with PDK box and various Audis with S Tronic and Tiptronic I am not sure I would agree that the PDK is a better product.

In my opinion it's miles better. Manual mode is a 'proper manual' and it doesn't hesitate at all. Can't get much better imo

 

[S32B]

I recommend test driving both to see what box you like best

There's a joke in there!!! I better not though

 

[sjbarneS3]

Took this today - car was 2 mins into my journey... just in standard 'drive'



No bogging down / turbo lag or anything... never does...

Crap video - but was from a standstill