Anyone had to use Regular Unleaded?

[Mike.46]

As the title suggests, I pulled into the local FS with 5 miles range showing only to be confronted by ''No Diesel or Super Unleaded''

I put £15 of normal Unleaded in and for the life of me I cant feel any difference? It doesnt appear to be doing less mpg either

 

[8YARWY]

As the title suggests, I pulled into the local FS with 5 miles range showing only to be confronted by ''No Diesel or Super Unleaded''

I put £15 of normal Unleaded in and for the life of me I cant feel any difference? It doesnt appear to be doing less mpg either

Now you’ve done it


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[AndyVWR]

I'm going to ask the moderator to take this thread down... (only joking)

I'm going to say (controversially), you can't feel the difference as there is still super unleaded in the fuel pump and fuel lines and you haven't started on the regular unleaded yet.

It could well be that full drain and fill up you might notice at really top end on a track between the two but just normal road use it has minimal effect and don't really notice it.

I think it is also a requirement to resign from the forum when you admit adding filling with regular unleaded

 

[8YARWY]

I'm going to ask the moderator to take this thread down... (only joking)

I'm going to say (controversially), you can't feel the difference as there is still super unleaded in the fuel pump and fuel lines and you haven't started on the regular unleaded yet.

It could well be that full drain and fill up you might notice at really top end on a track between the two but just normal road use it has minimal effect and don't really notice it.

I think it is also a requirement to resign from the forum when you admit adding filling with regular unleaded

I agree with Andy here, there will be a slight difference eventually as the ECU adapts timing when the 95 comes through, enough for you to 'feel' a loss of power at normal road using situations though, doubtful.......

Th 5 cylinder does love higher octane fuel though, certainly more when mapped and you are pushing ignition advance.

 

[Mike.46]

I returned to 'my' fuel station again today with 5 mile range showing (as the girl said they were having a delivery) and indeed they had, but only Diesel ***, so I have filled it with 95 octane.......................I'll let you know

 

[Terminator x]

£60k car and using ***** fuel, makes sense

TX.

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[Mike.46]

I agree with Andy here, there will be a slight difference eventually as the ECU adapts timing when the 95 comes through, enough for you to 'feel' a loss of power at normal road using situations though, doubtful.......

Th 5 cylinder does love higher octane fuel though, certainly more when mapped and you are pushing ignition advance.

Yes, the 5 cylinder likes ignition advance more than increased boost, I was increasing boost and backing timing off on the lads RS3 engined Golf (running Syvecs so good knock control) it seemed to like around 20 degree BTDC, as I pushed the boost we ended up around the 12-13 degree mark and the in gear acceleration suggested we were actually going slower (Syvecs also data logs) I reloaded the 20 degree map and the logging said that was the quicker car (100-200kph around 6-7 seconds dependent on gear change)

 

[Mike.46]

£60k car and using ***** fuel, makes sense

TX.

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No other option other than parking it and getting a jerry can and a taxi to the next fuel station i'm afraid ........................

 

[Booboo]

I think it all a load of bull tbh in Australia they use 91 no issues. Super to them is 95.
Ive never used the EVEN more expensive stuff

 

[Mike.46]

Just to add a little fuel to the fire.........................
According to NRMA motoring expert Jack Haley, on average 95 RON can give around 4 per cent lower fuel consumption than 91, assuming the engine computer adjusts to take advantage of the octane difference. Using 98 might give 3 per cent reduction over 95, again assuming the computer adjusts the engine parameters.

 

[8YARWY]

£60k car and using ***** fuel, makes sense

TX.

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You’ll be attracting the wrath of our resident you tubber


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[Terminator x]

No other option other than parking it and getting a jerry can and a taxi to the next fuel station i'm afraid ........................

Once is forgivable you've done it 2 times on the trot.

TX.

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[8YARWY]

Once is forgivable you've done it 2 times on the trot.

TX.

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Get the Ban stick out @Sandra someone is mistreating their car


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[Joey Slats]

Just to add a little fuel to the fire.........................
According to NRMA motoring expert Jack Haley, on average 95 RON can give around 4 per cent lower fuel consumption than 91, assuming the engine computer adjusts to take advantage of the octane difference. Using 98 might give 3 per cent reduction over 95, again assuming the computer adjusts the engine parameters.

On my tuned s3 there's a notable difference, its seen on the dyno too as my local tuner posts dyno graphs and with 95 they're about 7% down in terms of peak power. I've only had to put standard in once in my 6 years with my s3 and that was when we had that fake fuel shortage and everyone panicked.

 

[DangerMouseUK]

On the new Ford Ranger Raptor (which I'm interested in) they say it has to be run on 98RON otherwise you will get worse performance, not sure how that works but there you go!

 

[Mike.46]

On my tuned s3 there's a notable difference, its seen on the dyno too as my local tuner posts dyno graphs and with 95 they're about 7% down in terms of peak power. I've only had to put standard in once in my 6 years with my s3 and that was when we had that fake fuel shortage and everyone panicked.

First time ive had to put regular fuel in since 2017 when I bought the Golf R

 

[Mike.46]

Once is forgivable you've done it 2 times on the trot.

TX.

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At least Ive got a car though

 

[8YARWY]

At least Ive got a car though

Ooooooo that hurt


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[eleven_]

I agree with Andy here, there will be a slight difference eventually as the ECU adapts timing when the 95 comes through, enough for you to 'feel' a loss of power at normal road using situations though, doubtful.......

Th 5 cylinder does love higher octane fuel though, certainly more when mapped and you are pushing ignition advance.

I thought regular unleaded was 91ron. 95ron is okay according to Audi. Obviously 98ron is better and then 98ron with some e85 even so.

 

[8YARWY]

I thought regular unleaded was 91ron. 95ron is okay according to Audi. Obviously 98ron is better and then 98ron with some e85 even so.

Article for Australian owners.

Fuel ratings explained: 91, 95, 98 RON and E10

RON. More than just a name of a famous Harry Potter character, this acronym defines what is considered standard and premium unleaded petrol

www.carexpert.com.au

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[Mike.46]

I thought regular unleaded was 91ron. 95ron is okay according to Audi. Obviously 98ron is better and then 98ron with some e85 even so.

It's odd stuff this 'fuel' and what suits your engine the best depends on how the ecu is programmed by and large.

In the 90's the ecu was programmed for 'x' amount of advance and the advance was fixed 'unless' the knock sensor detected 'knock' it would then reduce the ignition advance to stop the knock, with this 'fixed' advance I found on the dyno that mixing a 50/50 percentage of Regular and Super unleaded would increase the output of a 911 Carrera RS by around 5-6hp over 100% Super Unleaded, this was repeatable on the dyno (as no one believed me at first) I was matching fuel to advance instead of matching advance to the fuel (we were racing in the Porsche Cup and ecu mods were not allowed)

Ten years later Porsche ran the ignition timing on the edge of knock by incresing the ignition advance along with the knock curve until knock was apparent and then held a certain % of knock.

Syvecs ecu on my lads car can reduce timing at a set amount when it detects a trigger on the knock noise, we have it set to 2 degrees on an individual cylinder, it gradulaly reduces the 2 degrees with engine revolutions, if it gets to 7 degrees it deems a problem and shuts that cylinder down, you can aslso get 'knock runaway' where the extra heat produced by knock promotes even greater knock on the next firing of that cylinder so the knock control needs to 'kill' the knock pretty quick.

Saying all that I have no idea how the modern RS3 ecu handles knock

E85 is 85% Ethanol with an Octane on about 112 IIRC, but not as much calories as regular fuel, so a fuel flex detector is required along with much larger injectors, the higher Octane allows even more boost and ignition timing to be used and gives a substancial hp increase in the same engine, At a guess if your std RS3 is 400 hp, it will probably map to 500hp on Super and with E85 and associated injectors/ecu etc you may see something over 600hp

 

[Terminator x]

At least Ive got a car though

Yours is a red carbon too I think so really rubbing it in

TX.

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[eleven_]

Article for Australian owners.

Fuel ratings explained: 91, 95, 98 RON and E10

RON. More than just a name of a famous Harry Potter character, this acronym defines what is considered standard and premium unleaded petrol

www.carexpert.com.au

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OP said they put regular unleaded in the car as opposed to Super unleaded. What’s the RON of regular vs super in UK? Obviously here in Aus regular is 91, super/premium 95 and premium 98, numbers here correspond to RON as opposed to Octane. Pretty sure UK is same as Europe and Aus, US rate their fuel at bowser in Octane. RS3 can be safely run on 95/98ron.

E85 can be safely mixed with 95/98 at a low percentage 10-20 to achieve better timing advance if the ECU allows or can advance on factory tune without actually getting a tune to take advantage of the higher octane. If ECU doesn’t advance timing with the extra octane from e85 then there’s not much point mixing it in but a good safety running some e85 beating on it when tracking. Yes, e85 burns faster therefore you need more of it but at 10-20% it’s absolutely fine and won’t negatively impact. Hank at IROZ recommends up to 30% e85. And e10 is just 91 with 10% e85 so again not same as mixing 98 with e85.

Done quite a bit of tuning over last 20 years on 98/e85, like to dabble.

 

[Mike.46]

Yours is a red carbon too I think so really rubbing it in

TX.

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Close, a Red SB Vorsprung

 

[8YARWY]

OP said they put regular unleaded in the car as opposed to Super unleaded. What’s the RON of regular vs super in UK? Obviously here in Aus regular is 91, super/premium 95 and premium 98, numbers here correspond to RON as opposed to Octane. Pretty sure UK is same as Europe and Aus, US rate their fuel at bowser in Octane. RS3 can be safely run on 95/98ron.

E85 can be safely mixed with 95/98 at a low percentage 10-20 to achieve better timing advance if the ECU allows or can advance on factory tune without actually getting a tune to take advantage of the higher octane. If ECU doesn’t advance timing with the extra octane from e85 then there’s not much point mixing it in but a good safety running some e85 beating on it when tracking. Yes, e85 burns faster therefore you need more of it but at 10-20% it’s absolutely fine and won’t negatively impact. Hank at IROZ recommends up to 30% e85. And e10 is just 91 with 10% e85 so again not same as mixing 98 with e85.

Done quite a bit of tuning over last 20 years on 98/e85, like to dabble.

My 8V was running on a E30 mix.

Port injection delivery was tweaked to increase delivery by Darin from Doubledtuning when he wrote a revision file.

I’d fill up to a certain amount of litres then add the Ethanol after.

Also fitted a SRM Ethanol sensor which was wired into the OBD port.

The ethanol content was always on display using the power gauge.

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[Mike.46]

OP said they put regular unleaded in the car as opposed to Super unleaded. What’s the RON of regular vs super in UK? Obviously here in Aus regular is 91, super/premium 95 and premium 98, numbers here correspond to RON as opposed to Octane. Pretty sure UK is same as Europe and Aus, US rate their fuel at bowser in Octane. RS3 can be safely run on 95/98ron.

E85 can be safely mixed with 95/98 at a low percentage 10-20 to achieve better timing advance if the ECU allows or can advance on factory tune without actually getting a tune to take advantage of the higher octane. If ECU doesn’t advance timing with the extra octane from e85 then there’s not much point mixing it in but a good safety running some e85 beating on it when tracking. Yes, e85 burns faster therefore you need more of it but at 10-20% it’s absolutely fine and won’t negatively impact. Hank at IROZ recommends up to 30% e85. And e10 is just 91 with 10% e85 so again not same as mixing 98 with e85.

Done quite a bit of tuning over last 20 years on 98/e85, like to dabble.

Usually 95 and 98 or Tesco at 99

I would have thought that if the ecu doesnt adapt to the extra E85 it would actually harm performance?

A few in the UK (Classic Motorcycle owners) have been suggesting removing the Ethanol from 95/98 Octane using water to attract the Ethanol, what they are forgetting is that the 10% Ethanol at 113 when removed is going to reduce the 95/98 Octane

 

[Mike.46]

I would think that being as the RS3 will run on 95/98 Octane happily it would be nice to know just how much Ethanol is actually in the fuel we buy? don't forget the 5 and 10% are a 'maybe up to that percentage' and not actual.

If we could confirm that Shell Super has for eg 0% Ethanol then presumably we could put 45litres of Super in and then a further 4.5 litre of E85? or even pure Ethanol ?

 

[8YARWY]

I would think that being as the RS3 will run on 95/98 Octane happily it would be nice to know just how much Ethanol is actually in the fuel we buy? don't forget the 5 and 10% are a 'maybe up to that percentage' and not actual.

If we could confirm that Shell Super has for eg 0% Ethanol then presumably we could put 45litres of Super in and then a further 4.5 litre of E85? or even pure Ethanol ?

Tesco used to show regular as 7% Mike.


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[8YARWY]

This was a log after a few runs.

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[Mike.46]

We struggled with EGT on a std/Hybrid turbo even with added Port and Water/Meth injection

 

[Mike.46]

Tesco used to show regular as 7% Mike.


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One of the Kawasaki triple members did some research and wrote an article , Esso had zero Ethanol in their Super in most area's but Wales and SE and I think NE was 5%

 

[jaypers777]

Only ever use Shell V Power, as was the case in my S3. Pretty sure it doesn’t make a lot of difference to normal driving but I’ve convinced myself that it’s cleaner and leads to a better maintained engine.

 

[8YARWY]

One of the Kawasaki triple members did some research and wrote an article , Esso had zero Ethanol in their Super in most area's but Wales and SE and I think NE was 5%

It does vary I found, highest I had was 9%.

Shell was 5%, but I avoid Shell now as there was a RS3 that was mapped for 99 and after he fuelled it up the car went kaput, piston melted, turns out when they sent the fuel off to be tested, it came back as 92……


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[eleven_]

From my understanding there’s no ethanol in 91/95/98 in Aus. We have e10 and e85 though. Unfortunately e85 has been fixed at $2.50/l for over 1 year vs between $1.80-$2.20 atm for 98 depending on day of the week and brand. Really like e85 for power and cleanliness but only really worth running it in a weekender/track car.

 

[Mike.46]

It does vary I found, highest I had was 9%.

Shell was 5%, but I avoid Shell now as there was a RS3 that was mapped for 99 and after he fuelled it up the car went kaput, piston melted, turns out when they sent the fuel off to be tested, it came back as 92……


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When I rebuilt the lads RS3 motor due to one big end failure (before we bought/got conned a little) I ended up 5 good pistons and 4 rods (only avaulable from Audi in set of 5) I didnt think there would be much of a market for them but put them on ebay as single items, the pistons sold very quickly, it turned out people wanted 'one' piston to replace the melted number 3 piston after they had their car mapped

 

[Daggerit]

When I rebuilt the lads RS3 motor due to one big end failure (before we bought/got conned a little) I ended up 5 good pistons and 4 rods (only avaulable from Audi in set of 5) I didnt think there would be much of a market for them but put them on ebay as single items, the pistons sold very quickly, it turned out people wanted 'one' piston to replace the melted number 3 piston after they had their car mapped

What specifically with the mapping causes it do you know? Just in case I ever get mine done I'd like to be able to have a little knowledge of what might cause issues. Just general boost, ignition timing, etc.?

 

[Charlie Farley]

just put some of this in the tank.

 

[Mike.46]

What specifically with the mapping causes it do you know? Just in case I ever get mine done I'd like to be able to have a little knowledge of what might cause issues. Just general boost, ignition timing, etc.?

Early steel block motors had a EGT probe in the turbo housing to protect from high EGT, apparently some tuning companies used to either disable the protection or offset the temperature reading to stop it interfeering and reducing performance,
I guess they think that no one is likely to hold it flat out for long enough to cause issues.
EGT is still a problem on early engines, caused by poor manifold design and a very short cylinder 3 rxhaust length , EGT on these engines is measured where it will be highest and it's very easy to see 950-1000c

 

[Mike.46]

Well 95 doesnt harm the fuel economy, Horrible run today Chester-Crewe and back, a mix of 30/40/50/60 roads, about a 40 miles round trip, it averaged 35mph and 46mpg surprised me that, never seen over 42mpg before

 

[eleven_]

Early steel block motors had a EGT probe in the turbo housing to protect from high EGT, apparently some tuning companies used to either disable the protection or offset the temperature reading to stop it interfeering and reducing performance,
I guess they think that no one is likely to hold it flat out for long enough to cause issues.
EGT is still a problem on early engines, caused by poor manifold design and a very short cylinder 3 rxhaust length , EGT on these engines is measured where it will be highest and it's very easy to see 950-1000c

I can only imagine EGT's to be pretty high with OPF and cats on 8Y.