JB4 times and testing

[8YARWY]

Sons Golf R springs to mind, It magically passed it's MOT with the previous owner without cats, but oddly this year it failed with the same exhaust on

It’s going to be an issue with serious consequences in some cases, imagine this, a 8Y is owned for a year by someone, they mess around with it, but leave the OPF’s off then trade it in / sell it.
Trader / Dealer doesn’t check it thoroughly and a new owner, who isn’t going underneath it because they just want a ‘standard’ RS3 and aren’t interested in modified cars (lol shock horror) and knows no better, has an accident in it, then insurers start digging…..

All because someone makes the car ‘illegal’ because it’s not ‘loud’ enough……


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[Mike.46]

The front section is primary cat and OPFs all in one piece, so cutting into this anywhere will stand out like a sore thumb.

As you say there's nothing stopping you removing the complete front section though, quite a bit of work involved though in swapping it all.

If you had to go into to Audi for any reason they'd flag this up on their Audi cam straight way, so you'd be kissing your engine warranty goodbye.

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I wonder if it would also be forwarded to Audi UK and available to other dealerships? It would be much easier for dealers just to check a database and tell the trade in customer that they will not take the car off them?
Personally I would be well pizzed off if I had purchased a car through the Audi network only to find out it had in the past been subjected to cat/OPF removal and lots of welding and clamps to put them back in.
It is NOT illegal in the UK to remove the OPF, but it is illegal to drive the car once it has been removed, I wonder how long before someone gets taken to court for driving without one?

 

[eleven_]

I wonder if it would also be forwarded to Audi UK and available to other dealerships? It would be much easier for dealers just to check a database and tell the trade in customer that they will not take the car off them?
Personally I would be well pizzed off if I had purchased a car through the Audi network only to find out it had in the past been subjected to cat/OPF removal and lots of welding and clamps to put them back in.
It is NOT illegal in the UK to remove the OPF, but it is illegal to drive the car once it has been removed, I wonder how long before someone gets taken to court for driving without one?

And then imagine if the dealer didn’t take responsibility saying they inspected the car and liability now falls on the new owner who either sucks it up or forks out $$$$$ on a legal battle.

 

[garethdj]

I wonder if it would also be forwarded to Audi UK and available to other dealerships? It would be much easier for dealers just to check a database and tell the trade in customer that they will not take the car off them?
Personally I would be well pizzed off if I had purchased a car through the Audi network only to find out it had in the past been subjected to cat/OPF removal and lots of welding and clamps to put them back in.
It is NOT illegal in the UK to remove the OPF, but it is illegal to drive the car once it has been removed, I wonder how long before someone gets taken to court for driving without one?

I stumbled across this a while back. The bottom half could imply that it is illegal to simply remove it. However not sure if that would be more so aimed at the garage doing the work than the owner.


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[betaone68]

In Italia al momento non abbiamo tutti questi problemi. La polizia e una compagnia di assicurazioni non noteranno mai che hai un tubo di scolo con un catalizzatore sportivo senza opf. L'installazione completa del downpipe è complessa ma non impossibile. Ci vogliono circa 4-6 ore (dipende molto se il meccanico ha già fatto questo lavoro) e bisogna rifare la convergenza della ruota anteriore. Conosco abbastanza bene l'officina Audi e loro conoscono tutte le modifiche che faccio sulla macchina. È importante per loro che quando si connettono con la diagnostica Audi non si verifichino errori. Ovviamente in caso di rottura grave devo portare la macchina in officina tutta originale.
Faccio questa modifica non solo per avere un sound di scarico decente e non da auto elettrica ma anche per abbassare drasticamente le temperature nel vano motore. Adesso con 15-20 gradi di temperatura esterna se mi fermo a motore spento dopo 10 minuti la temperatura IAT è di 60-65 gradi. Quest'estate, quando ci saranno 35-40 gradi, quali temperature IAT dovrei aspettarmi?

 

[8YARWY]

In Italia al momento non abbiamo tutti questi problemi. La polizia e una compagnia di assicurazioni non noteranno mai che hai un tubo di scolo con un catalizzatore sportivo senza opf. L'installazione completa del downpipe è complessa ma non impossibile. Ci vogliono circa 4-6 ore (dipende molto se il meccanico ha già fatto questo lavoro) e bisogna rifare la convergenza della ruota anteriore. Conosco abbastanza bene l'officina Audi e loro conoscono tutte le modifiche che faccio sulla macchina. È importante per loro che quando si connettono con la diagnostica Audi non si verifichino errori. Ovviamente in caso di rottura grave devo portare la macchina in officina tutta originale.
Faccio questa modifica non solo per avere un sound di scarico decente e non da auto elettrica ma anche per abbassare drasticamente le temperature nel vano motore. Adesso con 15-20 gradi di temperatura esterna se mi fermo a motore spento dopo 10 minuti la temperatura IAT è di 60-65 gradi. Quest'estate, quando ci saranno 35-40 gradi, quali temperature IAT dovrei aspettarmi?

Hmmmm gonna need the Babel fish or indeed C3PO for this one…………

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[Mike.46]

Hmmmm gonna need the Babel fish or indeed C3PO for this one…………

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Google translate is a pretty gooda

In Italy at the moment we don't have all these problems. The police and an insurance company will never notice that you have a downpipe with a non-opf sports catalyst. Complete downpipe installation is tricky but not impossible. It takes about 4-6 hours (it depends a lot if the mechanic has already done this job) and you have to redo the toe-in of the front wheel. I know the Audi garage quite well and they know all the modifications I make to the car. It is important for them that when connecting with Audi diagnostics there are no errors. Obviously in case of serious breakage I have to take the car to the workshop all original.
I make this modification not only to have a decent exhaust sound and not that of an electric car but also to drastically lower the temperatures in the engine compartment. Now with 15-20 degrees outside temperature if I stop with the engine off after 10 minutes the IAT temperature is 60-65 degrees. This summer, when it's 35-40 degrees, what IAT temperatures should I expect?

 

[8YARWY]

Google translate is a pretty gooda

In Italy at the moment we don't have all these problems. The police and an insurance company will never notice that you have a downpipe with a non-opf sports catalyst. Complete downpipe installation is tricky but not impossible. It takes about 4-6 hours (it depends a lot if the mechanic has already done this job) and you have to redo the toe-in of the front wheel. I know the Audi garage quite well and they know all the modifications I make to the car. It is important for them that when connecting with Audi diagnostics there are no errors. Obviously in case of serious breakage I have to take the car to the workshop all original.
I make this modification not only to have a decent exhaust sound and not that of an electric car but also to drastically lower the temperatures in the engine compartment. Now with 15-20 degrees outside temperature if I stop with the engine off after 10 minutes the IAT temperature is 60-65 degrees. This summer, when it's 35-40 degrees, what IAT temperatures should I expect?

Why start posting in Italian though.........this forum gets weirder by the day

 

[betaone68]

Sorry I pasted text in Italian and not translated .... how stupid

In Italy at the moment we don't have all these problems. The police and an insurance company will never notice that you have a downpipe with a sport catalytic converter without an opf. Complete downpipe installation is complex but not impossible. It takes about 4-6 hours (it depends a lot if the mechanic has already done this work) and you have to redo the front wheel alignment. I know the Audi workshop quite well and they know all the modifications I do on the car. It is important to them that when they connect with the Audi diagnostics there are no errors. Of course in case of a serious break I have to bring the car to the workshop all original.
I do this modification not only to have a decent, non-electric car exhaust sound but also to drastically lower the temperatures in the engine compartment. Now with 15-20 degrees outside temperature if I stop with the engine off after 10 minutes the IAT temperature is 60-65 degrees. This summer, when it will be 35-40 degrees, what IAT temperatures should I expect?

 

[eleven_]

Getting back on topic, there seems to be an issue over boosting between gears when going up to higher maps 4/5 and 6.

Some overboost going into next gear is okay but when north of 21-22psi actual boost, it seems the TCU does not apply enough clamp force when going into next gear. Makes sense though, if ECU is being told and only seeing 13psi but in reality it's actually 22psi then you may see some slip due to the inadequate force being applied to clutches. Hard one to iron out. Boost redux is the go to for this but doesn't seem to have much effect on boost reduction.

 

[eleven_]

Issue resolved with some fine tuning of settings to net a 10.81s 1/4-mile at 205kph. I can see a 10.7x there somewhere with better 60' and that'll be the limit on JB4, full weight, street tyres with OPF/cats on.

 

[8YBS]

Issue resolved with some fine tuning of settings to net a 10.81s 1/4-mile at 205kph. I can see a 10.7x there somewhere with better 60' and that'll be the limit on JB4, full weight, street tyres with OPF/cats on.

View attachment 265863

What settings are you changing to resolve the boost spikes?

I've been in contact with George and we've been tweaking PID, WGDC and still seeing the spikes between gear changes...

Shift boost redux also seems to have minimal impact?

 

[eleven_]

What settings are you changing to resolve the boost spikes?

I've been in contact with George and we've been tweaking PID, WGDC and still seeing the spikes between gear changes...

Shift boost redux also seems to have minimal impact?

is it boost spike or clutch slip you’re concerned about? George had some different suggestions than what I did to get rid of the slip, only because it was taking too long with time zones being opposite.

 

[8YBS]

is it boost spike or clutch slip you’re concerned about? George had some different suggestions than what I did to get rid of the slip, only because it was taking too long with time zones being opposite.

I haven't particularly noticed clutch slip, but there has been a noticeable hesitation rolling into the next gear (you can see the spikes between shifts in this pic, map 3 for reference).

This is PID=8 and WGDC lowered by 10 from 5000 > (at George's request).

 

[eleven_]

I haven't particularly noticed clutch slip, but there has been a noticeable hesitation rolling into the next gear (you can see the spikes between shifts in this pic, map 3 for reference).

This is PID=8 and WGDC lowered by 10 from 5000 > (at George's request).

I didn't follow the generic User adjustment settings when I tested map3 and map5 or map6 initially so I didn't have any of these issues.

I think if you start with their settings it's hit and miss. I'd recommend doing a log of map0 to get a baseline. of stock numbers. Then log map3 but clear all user settings and get a baseline of what map3 requests. Then add your boost to whatever targets you want to reach, log. see where your boost is (ecu+target boost), check for timing being pulled. You may fall under your targeted boost (I didn't for the lower maps) but if you do then start adding wgdc, you can do this across the board from around 3000rpm up (let say 40's). Log, check log to see boost curve/timing and if it's what you have requested. If not, shape wgdc by adding in 10's to areas where you need it to pick up and vice versa.

FYI for the generic map3 I hit the targets with wgdc 0 across the board. I had no other manual settings in user adjustments. Never had a shift delay, slip or anything.was very smooth.

I've only needed to input settings and make adjustments to map6 to max out power on the fuel I am running. If you're on 98ron, you won't need to make many changes.

Yes, reducing wgdc at top end may help, depending on your other setting, but you didn't show wgdc in your log.

 

[8YBS]

Tha

I didn't follow the generic User adjustment settings when I tested map3 and map5 or map6 initially so I didn't have any of these issues.

I think if you start with their settings it's hit and miss. I'd recommend doing a log of map0 to get a baseline. of stock numbers. Then log map3 but clear all user settings and get a baseline of what map3 requests. Then add your boost to whatever targets you want to reach, log. see where your boost is (ecu+target boost), check for timing being pulled. You may fall under your targeted boost (I didn't for the lower maps) but if you do then start adding wgdc, you can do this across the board from around 3000rpm up (let say 40's). Log, check log to see boost curve/timing and if it's what you have requested. If not, shape wgdc by adding in 10's to areas where you need it to pick up and vice versa.

FYI for the generic map3 I hit the targets with wgdc 0 across the board. I had no other manual settings in user adjustments. Never had a shift delay, slip or anything.was very smooth.

I've only needed to input settings and make adjustments to map6 to max out power on the fuel I am running. If you're on 98ron, you won't need to make many changes.

Yes, reducing wgdc at top end may help, depending on your other setting, but you didn't show wgdc in your log.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate all of the good info!

Can I confirm you had WGDC at 0 when testing map 3?
If I'm understanding the above correct, this will give me a perfect spot to start.

These were my default WG values.

 

[eleven_]

Tha

Thanks for the reply, appreciate all of the good info!

Can I confirm you had WGDC at 0 when testing map 3?
If I'm understanding the above correct, this will give me a perfect spot to start.

These were my default WG values.

90 wgdc seems excessive when requesting an additional 2psi-4psi boost.

Attached my map3 log. You can see my requested wgdc’s are 0%, requesting +4psi boost on top of ecu boost and it’s getting there fine.

 

[eleven_]

Bit more tweaking of Map6 nets a 6.64s 100-200kph, 9.85 0-200kph and 10.74s 1/4-mile.

Pretty sure from what I've seen that's a better result than what was had on the 8V DAZA + JB4.

 

[8YBS]

Bit more tweaking of Map6 nets a 6.64s 100-200kph, 9.85 0-200kph and 10.74s 1/4-mile.

Pretty sure from what I've seen that's a better result than what was had on the 8V DAZA + JB4.

Do you have a log from that run?
Interested to see the CSV if you do.

 

[8YBS]

Or any recent 100-200 runs etc

 

[8YARWY]

After removing mine yesterday as it went into Audi for its first service, the cold start rattle has all but gone.

Doubt I’ll bother putting it back on now unless George sheds some light on it.


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[betaone68]

After removing mine yesterday as it went into Audi for its first service, the cold start rattle has all but gone.

Doubt I’ll bother putting it back on now unless George sheds some light on it.


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What do you mean by cold start rattle?
Do you mean wastgate rattle?
From my experience with Jb4 with original downpipe I didn't find any strange rattle . With 200 cell downpipe without opf the wastgate rattle can be heard the same with both Jb4 and without Jb4 . As I do not go any further with map 3 the Jb4 wastegate management with BCM module is not needed and I have disconnected it .
As soon as I can I will remount original downpipe . OPF emulator I am using works but the wastgate rattle is unbearable for me. Too bad because the performance achieved was good see dyno.

 

[8YARWY]

What do you mean by cold start rattle?
Do you mean wastgate rattle?
From my experience with Jb4 with original downpipe I didn't find any strange rattle . With 200 cell downpipe without opf the wastgate rattle can be heard the same with both Jb4 and without Jb4 . As I do not go any further with map 3 the Jb4 wastegate management with BCM module is not needed and I have disconnected it .
As soon as I can I will remount original downpipe . OPF emulator I am using works but the wastgate rattle is unbearable for me. Too bad because the performance achieved was good see dyno.

Similar noise to the 8V advanced catalyst warm up phase ie 30 secs or so of bag of nails sound, but no where near as bad, could still hear it though.


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[betaone68]

Similar noise to the 8V advanced catalyst warm up phase ie 30 secs or so of bag of nails sound, but no where near as bad, could still hear it though.


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However, I cannot understand how there can be a correspondence to this rattle in the cold start with Jb4 ?

 

[eleven_]

After removing mine yesterday as it went into Audi for its first service, the cold start rattle has all but gone.

Doubt I’ll bother putting it back on now unless George sheds some light on it.


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I'm yet to hear this wga rattle. Curious, what have you noticed with JB4 then without?

Maybe with JB4's wga settings, you may be able to tighten it electronically on startup so you don't get the rattle.

 

[8YARWY]

I'm yet to hear this wga rattle. Curious, what have you noticed with JB4 then without?

Maybe with JB4's wga settings, you may be able to tighten it electronically on startup so you don't get the rattle.

When you get in the car on a cold start leave the window / door open and see if you hear it.
Lasts about 10 secs or so


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[Daggerit]

When you get in the car on a cold start leave the window / door open and see if you hear it.
Lasts about 10 secs or so


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I was walking around outside the car today while it was on cold start and can't say I heard it. I wasn't listening for it specifically though, so I'll keep my ear out for it. I'll try it with the valves open as well to see if that makes a difference.

 

[8YARWY]

I was walking around outside the car today while it was on cold start and can't say I heard it. I wasn't listening for it specifically though, so I'll keep my ear out for it. I'll try it with the valves open as well to see if that makes a difference.

Lol have you a JB4 fitted though ?

Exhaust valve has no effect on the noise.

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[Daggerit]

Lol have you a JB4 fitted though ?


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Lol, no! I thought someone had said that it was there a bit on the car stock though. Must've just misread it... Never mind, no need to listen out for it then.

 

[eleven_]

When you get in the car on a cold start leave the window / door open and see if you hear it.
Lasts about 10 secs or so


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I can't hear any wga rattle. I do have a straight through exhaust OPF back so it's bit louder than stock.

 

[garethdj]

I can't hear any wga rattle. I do have a straight through exhaust OPF back so it's bit louder than stock.

Straight through you say?


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[eleven_]

Straight through you say?


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Straight pipe, no muffler/flaps.

 

[Weza12345]

I finally got around to installing the JB4 last week and didn't hesitate to jump into testing it on some higher maps after some initial logging.

I thought the install would be much harder but as a couple others have pointed out, there is a grommet next to the steering column to the left on RHD cars that will get you straight across the firewall. From there I ran it behind the heat shielding and out somewhere near the jump start terminals. Install is so clean, even with the engine cover off, you're likely to miss it unless you're specifically looking for it. The JB4 box just sits neatly on its flat side next to the intake. I stuck some furniture rubber protectors to the underside and between the intake to dampen any vibrations or anywhere there is a chance of rubbing or touching.

Loaded and tested MAP3 which is recommended for pump fuel which adds a few psi and some timing (indirectly). Logs were good so I jumped up to start using it for the reason I bought it

Maps 4&5 are recommended with higher octane fuels and I usually run an e30 mix anyway. Loaded Map5. Could really feel the difference now throughout the rev range but mainly mid-range.

I'm not a horsepower guy, I like functionality so I measure performance at a strip, track or going shopping . 1/4 mile didn't lie and I managed a 11.09s run, down from 11.34s.

Boost was still very conservative around 20-21psi peak and 18psi by redline, timing managed on this fuel is very health to say the least. Not too shabby overall.

Custom MAP6 is where it's at. Still a work in progress but a 10.92s run with a glitchy gear change and I let off before end of run. Boost level is still not where it can be and keep in mind this is with OPF's and cat still in place. There is definitely a 10.8s run in it as is but I'm feeling a 10.7s run soon if able to work through some correction factors.

Hi, could u post some settings and logs plse?