Facelift Jassy's Discussion/Build/Wait Voodoo Blue S3 Saloon Thread

[4K]

Sorry I still don't get why the upfront cost makes any difference?

If you decide to P/X earlier, the difference between what you owe and what the trade in is is just smaller if you put in a high upfront payment vs. if you put in a lower upfront payment.

E.g. if you want to P/X after just 12m in this example:
£5 deposit/12 monthlies of £453 = Total £10,436 - amount still owing about £30k
£15k deposit/12 monthlies of £146 = Total £16,752 - amount still owing about £24k

If they offer you £30k in P/X then you break even on the £5k deposit and end up spending about £10k.
If you paid £15k up front, then you are £6k in positive equity, so you've paid £16k and now have £6k back in equity and have paid....£10k.

Keeping the cash in the bank is one argument, but unless you have a way to invest it that returns you better than the interest you are being charged on the PCP (4.9%), then its not the most sensible thing. Some people like having the money there for a rainy day though. As I said, its a personal preference. Neither way is better.

Exactly, with your example, you've put in 15K, and after a year, you've lost £9,000, as opposed to a smaller deposit meaning you've lost £5,000. Depreciation.

That's your opinion. I disagree. I believe it is better to be as liquid as possible, for whatever scenario may happen. Ploughing all of ones money into a car which they likely can't afford (hence why they're choosing PCP in the first place) is an unwise move to make if you suddenly have to pay for something that isn't covered by the warranty for example, or if you find the car isn't up to expectations and you wish to change it.

Also don't forget, the GFV doesn't change if you put a higher deposit in. Yes you have a smaller amount to pay overall, but you are wrong in thinking that you are somehow going to be in positive equity down the line on a long term PCP. That is all down to market rates as I said before.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

Dealer should refund Jassy so if you are thinking cancelling would be best right now I would pursue that with them.

One single car to a Dealer is nothing so as noted above they will either cancel the order or let it run through and sell it to someone else, use a showroom car, give to one of the Dealer staff to run.

There really should not be an issue getting a refund - more so with the car not even being made or started build yet.

 

[4K]

Jassyo06, lets be honest here, the S3 and RS3 are hardly the most exciting cars (without doubt fast but maybe a bit too efficient/flattering in a Germanic way) to drive so what you really want is.............
the dynamics of the new CTR
the looks and interior of the S3/RS3
for the price of a mountune Focus RS

Ignore the money side of things and ignore price reductions..........you won't be happy if you buy the wrong car whatever the figures are. Don't be loyal to Audi, they don't give a rats. Go try a few (even ones you think you won't like) to see if once you are behind the wheel the world becomes a brighter place, many manufacturers have so caught up with their German counterparts and the badge doesn't make much difference anymore regarding reliability/longevity/performance and some 'lesser' brands might/will surprise you.

Any well spec'd S3/RS3 are simply too expensive in the market place (oh how Audi love PCP) compared to others so save yourself £10k and buy an Focus! However if you do use your car to commute the Audi will be the best place to be, your current S3 will continue to work for years (and 300bhp is never going to be slow) so continue to use it until you either break it/bend it/know what you want to buy.

Any more advice just ask.....hehe

Quite right. Most Audi franchisees are dreadful nowadays. I actually travel way out of my own way to find one that's semi-decent on customer service, rather than using my local one. I think for the money, they're better priced than the equivalent BMW's, i.e. the M240i and M140i, however, the standard spec is still well below what I would expect for a car of this money. That sentiment goes even further for the RS3, and I think that is frankly pushing way above it's weight in terms of price, but that's a conversation for another day.

 

[DrEskimo]

Exactly, with your example, you've put in 15K, and after a year, you've lost £9,000, as opposed to a smaller deposit meaning you've lost £5,000. Depreciation.

That's your opinion. I disagree. I believe it is better to be as liquid as possible, for whatever scenario may happen. Ploughing all of ones money into a car which they likely can't afford (hence why they're choosing PCP in the first place) is an unwise move to make if you suddenly have to pay for something that isn't covered by the warranty for example, or if you find the car isn't up to expectations and you wish to change it.

Also don't forget, the GFV doesn't change if you put a higher deposit in. Yes you have a smaller amount to pay overall, but you are wrong in thinking that you are somehow going to be in positive equity down the line on a long term PCP. That is all down to market rates as I said before.

You've lost me now I'm afraid mate...!

In my example I thought I demonstrated that both £5k and £15k deposits pay £10k if they P/X the car after just 1year into a 3yr PCP? Where has the £9k and £5k figures come from?

I haven't really expressed an opinion either way, just showing some numbers to demonstrate that it makes very little difference however much deposit you put down. I agree some might want liquid cash to help with unexpected costs. In which case, a low deposit works for them. The money they keep back is effectively a loan at the rate of the PCP though. And what if someone has £30k savings and only puts in £15k. They have a high deposit, but still plenty of liquid cash as well...? Its all relative, as they say.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by the last paragraph? Equity is just the difference between the market value and the finance owed. If you put in less upfront payment, that difference will be bigger earlier on than if you put in a higher upfront payment...? This difference will decrease over the term. Of course by the end of the agreement, they will both be identical.

 

[Satory]

You've lost me now I'm afraid mate...!

In my example I thought I demonstrated that both £5k and £15k deposits pay £10k if they P/X the car after just 1year into a 3yr PCP? Where has the £9k and £5k figures come from?

You did demonstrate just that. The £9k is the 15 deposit from scenario 2, less the 6 you make on sale. The £5k is the deposit from scenario 1. In other words just ignoring the fact that the monthly payments are higher in scenario 1. Lol.

 

[AJB Audi]

Dealer should refund Jassy so if you are thinking cancelling would be best right now I would pursue that with them.

One single car to a Dealer is nothing so as noted above they will either cancel the order or let it run through and sell it to someone else, use a showroom car, give to one of the Dealer staff to run.

There really should not be an issue getting a refund - more so with the car not even being made or started build yet.

Useful info about getting back deposits here:

http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/is-my-deposit-refundable-asktce

In short it's now down to the discretion of the dealer and, even if the deposit had been paid away from their premises, the 14 day cooling off period has presumably long gone.

When do factory orders get locked (no changes allowed) as the issue here is surely going to be the exclusive paint - an already niche car (S3) has become even more niche with a colour that will have a potentially more limited market/appeal?

If it's too late for the dealer to change the colour, or use the slot for another order, then they probably have quite a strong case to say that retaining the deposit goes some way to compensating them for the time they have spent to date and the likelihood of them having to discount the car to find a buyer. Another regular poster found that his local dealer had a policy of requiring a 20% deposit on orders with exclusive paint (perhaps because they have been burnt before on the financial consequences of having to discount these cars to find another buyer?).

The dealer may be open to a goodwill gesture, but for a customer at the opposite end of the country there may be limited scope for any future upside to that gesture?

Ultimately it's up to the dealer but their options may be greater if they have more notice of a decision to cancel the order?

 

[S32B]

Had a call from Honda today to say the the new Type R had just come in, but it's not ready for a test drive as it need to get set up etc....But I was welcome to take a look if I wanted, so I went down

To be honest it's not as crazy as it looks when you see it in the flesh! It does look good, very good! Inside is amazing, loved the dash and dials, the seats are snug! I'm 6ft1 and 15.5 stone and any bigger would be tight lol.

Couple of shots, some idiot had parked right in front so had to make do with these:

I would switch my S3 for one of these!

 

[AlexDR]

To me it looks a bit like how a 10 year old wants a car to look but each to their own...

 

[DrEskimo]

You did demonstrate just that. The £9k is the 15 deposit from scenario 2, less the 6 you make on sale. The £5k is the deposit from scenario 1. In other words just ignoring the fact that the monthly payments are higher in scenario 1. Lol.

Oh....!

Yea I guess when you ignore the fact that the low deposit has paid nearly £5.5k in monthlies in 12months, whereas the high deposit has paid just £1,700, then yes, a low deposit is much better...!

An yea sorry agree with AlexDR....that Honda is a bit much for my tastes! The exhaust does make me smile though

 

[msdmjb]

The CTR is a heck of a machine and much more focused than the Audi products, makes the S3 feel a little heavy and ponderous. Honda have really up'd their game with this one.

Not my ideal styling either but the seats in it are the best I have ever sat in, superb. Not many mainstream turbo engines rev as aggressively as the Honda one, if the back end had been styled like the front it would be the bargain of the £3ok ish hot hatch brigade. 300bhp+ and a superb manual gearbox........bring back the hot hatch days!

 

[Snake Pliskin]

I previously had a 2004 bread van style CTR and then a 2007 new platform & both great cars at the time.
But I am sorry I just think the ludicrous styling on the latest CTR is just insane ... makes a focus RS look discreet lol
I'm sure it is a great car to drive, but I would feel a right numpty driving one of those now.
I will have my discreet Audi any day

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Just remove the idiotic spoiler, and if I was in my twenties, I would be giving it a very serious look.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

Even if you took the rear spoiler out of the equation - the front styling is all over the place.

 

[azibux1]

Even if you took the rear spoiler out of the equation - the front styling is all over the place.

View attachment 133116

Yup way too much plastic... looks cheap I'm afraid (I know it is cheap...but not exactly that cheap)

 

[4K]

You've lost me now I'm afraid mate...!

In my example I thought I demonstrated that both £5k and £15k deposits pay £10k if they P/X the car after just 1year into a 3yr PCP? Where has the £9k and £5k figures come from?

I won't repost what Satory has already said as I think you understand the numbers now, but let me know if I need to clarify

I haven't really expressed an opinion either way, just showing some numbers to demonstrate that it makes very little difference however much deposit you put down. I agree some might want liquid cash to help with unexpected costs. In which case, a low deposit works for them. The money they keep back is effectively a loan at the rate of the PCP though. And what if someone has £30k savings and only puts in £15k. They have a high deposit, but still plenty of liquid cash as well...? Its all relative, as they say.

Well that's not quite true is it? In one of your previous posts you said:

As I said, its a personal preference. Neither way is better.

. That's a matter of opinion as according to you deem both balanced options. To me, having liquid cash is better, for the reasons aforementioned

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by the last paragraph? Equity is just the difference between the market value and the finance owed. If you put in less upfront payment, that difference will be bigger earlier on than if you put in a higher upfront payment...? This difference will decrease over the term. Of course by the end of the agreement, they will both be identical.

Sort of, but actually what equity really means is your car is WORTH MORE than you still owe. That's calculated by subtracting the amount you owe to the finance company from the actual value of the car. Even with a high deposit, you could still be in negative equity, depending on when the car is sold.

In a nutshell, yes, someone who likes to change car often, it makes no sense for them to pour a huge deposit into a car they might not keep for 4 years, as there is no penalty required to pay the sum off early, unlike a mortgage.

Anyway, I feel like we shouldn't take up too much more of jassy's thread debating which deposit contribution is preferred.

 

[PanamaS3]

I want to like that Honda....but jeez! the back end looks gash....comical...boy racer on steroids...almost nothing for the aftermarket boys to do except make it look slower!

 

[DrEskimo]

I won't repost what Satory has already said as I think you understand the numbers now, but let me know if I need to clarify

Well that's not quite true is it? In one of your previous posts you said: . That's a matter of opinion as according to you deem both balanced options. To me, having liquid cash is better, for the reasons aforementioned


Sort of, but actually what equity really means is your car is WORTH MORE than you still owe. That's calculated by subtracting the amount you owe to the finance company from the actual value of the car. Even with a high deposit, you could still be in negative equity, depending on when the car is sold.

In a nutshell, yes, someone who likes to change car often, it makes no sense for them to pour a huge deposit into a car they might not keep for 4 years, as there is no penalty required to pay the sum off early, unlike a mortgage.

Anyway, I feel like we shouldn't take up too much more of jassy's thread debating which deposit contribution is preferred.

Errrrm...? You do realise that Satory was pointing out that your numbers don't make any sense right? You cant just ignore the monthly cost and say 'look, the deposit is lower so it's cheaper!'!

I get the argument that liquid cash may be useful to you, but many others will argue that it's pointless keeping that money in the bank since it will never make a better return sitting in the bank, than the interest you are paying on the debt. It is costing you to keep that money in the bank. If you wouldn't take out a personal loan to keep money in the bank for a rainy day, then it doesn't make sense here either. It's exactly the same thing. In my example, it's costing £250 a year extra to keep that money in the bank. Some would argue, why not save the difference in the monthlies (£300) and put that away for unexpected costs? You have money in the savings, and you save £750 in interest.

If you can re-invest that money into something with a higher return, then that's a different matter.

And yes, it might not be in positive equity, but it will be in less negative equity than the low deposit example. It will always be a smaller difference than a low deposit finance, up until the end of the agreement. Say the S3 bottoms out and is only worth £20k after 1yr, not £30k. You are now £10k negative equity and just £4k negative equity in the low and high deposit respectively. So now with a £5k deposit you've paid £10k and have £10k neg equity, so £20k total, and with a high deposit you've paid £16k and have £4k neg equity....£20k as well....!

"it makes no sense for them to pour a huge deposit into a car they might not keep for 4 years"

And again...why? I have demonstrated to you it makes very little difference. If someone wants to put down more upfront and pay much less monthly, then more for them. If you want to put down less and pay much more monthly, then more for you. There are pros and cons to both and neither is 'better'. The only factual difference is that a higher deposit is cheaper....

 

[AudiNutta]

Useful info about getting back deposits here:

http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/is-my-deposit-refundable-asktce

In short it's now down to the discretion of the dealer and, even if the deposit had been paid away from their premises, the 14 day cooling off period has presumably long gone.

When do factory orders get locked (no changes allowed) as the issue here is surely going to be the exclusive paint - an already niche car (S3) has become even more niche with a colour that will have a potentially more limited market/appeal?

If it's too late for the dealer to change the colour, or use the slot for another order, then they probably have quite a strong case to say that retaining the deposit goes some way to compensating them for the time they have spent to date and the likelihood of them having to discount the car to find a buyer. Another regular poster found that his local dealer had a policy of requiring a 20% deposit on orders with exclusive paint (perhaps because they have been burnt before on the financial consequences of having to discount these cars to find another buyer?).

The dealer may be open to a goodwill gesture, but for a customer at the opposite end of the country there may be limited scope for any future upside to that gesture?

Ultimately it's up to the dealer but their options may be greater if they have more notice of a decision to cancel the order?

That was me faced by a 20% deposit at Cardiff Audi. I was forced to use Worcester who offered to take a £1000 (non-refundable) deposit. My only way out of this was that they said the car would be there in January, if it was not then I would have had my money back. Otherwise, the car is due to be built in November now and I would lose my money.

As I have also learnt, an Exclusive order can't be cancelled or amended unless given special permission from the factory. You can't change the visuals, but technology like TPMS could be changed. I just tried to remove the Driver Assist Pack and the system denied it, but special request to the factory saw it accepted. With Exclusive, I see it likely that they will hold onto the deposit sadly, because they cannot change the colour on that order now or cancel it. So they will want to cover any potential discounts they have to make on that car to sell it?

 

[Tom.H]

Did you guys have to leave a deposit at the time of ordering? Whether exclusive or not.

Only ask as I didn't have to hand any money over until a few days before collection.

 

[TDI-line]

To me it looks a bit like how a 10 year old wants a car to look but each to their own...

 

[Jassyo06]

Meanwhile back at the Ranch.... Yeah l know l will lose that £2k deposit no doubt about it, its a very expensive S3, question is....? do l take that on the chin..... and keep saving for THE RS3.... Or take the S3..... Put it this way av got a eta for the S3 of 2 months.... Build date is September 4th, so l have time to think, thanks for the input guys nice bunch of informative peeps on here

 

[Jassyo06]

Did you guys have to leave a deposit at the time of ordering? Whether exclusive or not.

Only ask as I didn't have to hand any money over until a few days before collection.

You must have a very trustworthy face? or as they say up here "a trustworthy coupon" lol

 

[MattSedg]

Just remove the idiotic spoiler, and if I was in my twenties, I would be giving it a very serious look.

im 22 and wouldnt even consider one purely because of its looks

 

[MattSedg]

Meanwhile back at the Ranch.... Yeah l know l will lose that £2k deposit no doubt about it, its a very expensive S3, question is....? do l take that on the chin..... and keep saving for THE RS3.... Or take the S3..... Put it this way av got a eta for the S3 of 2 months.... Build date is September 4th, so l have time to think, thanks for the input guys nice bunch of informative peeps on here

THE RS3....THE final car like you've said before
would be that much sweeter when it comes, even with the longer wait

 

[KenL]

Did you guys have to leave a deposit at the time of ordering? Whether exclusive or not.

Only ask as I didn't have to hand any money over until a few days before collection.

I paid £500 to order my car.

 

[Jassyo06]

THE RS3....THE final car like you've said before
would be that much sweeter when it comes, even with the longer wait

Yeah mate as l said on a post previously, l was waiting on a finance quote back from the dealer but l have no access to my email as l am working away from home, could ask to delay the order for a March delivery when l get home tomorrow night

 

[Snake Pliskin]

@jassyo06

If you are still in any doubt about the S3 then I would do your upmost to get the deposit at the very least deferred for an eventual RS3 order.

You will 110% know you've got a different car you will 1010% frickin love it. The S3 is a great car but I am sensing you may not be 'fulfilled' with another albeit face lift with an amazing spec & colour.

The RS3 feels / looks / drives / sounds special & makes you grin every single trip.
ITS AN RS !!!!!

The facelift with all its tweaks & virtual cockpit is ace & if you can get into one for a little more than the high spec S3 you ordered then cards on the table: my advice is get the RS3 mate.

If you are still unsure do your best to get your deposit back and just wait until you have decided what you want & what is best for you.

Also ... DO NOT stick to the S3 if you have any doubts or for the sake of £2k.
If you get the car & it doesn't live up to expectations or you were to get bored after a few months, that could really wind you up & then you will be stuck with the car as there will be zero equity for at least a couple of years maybe more.

So even losing £2k could be a sensible if gutting option if you do have serious doubts.
Just be sure another (special) S3 would be right for you.

I hope that helps but I feel it was time for some straight talking & apologies but it clouds things even more ... but I hope it helps pal

 

[TDI-line]

Yep, the £2k deferred deposit sounds like a plan, if not £2k of crap accessories....

 

[Audi Bairn]

Had a call from Honda today to say the the new Type R had just come in, but it's not ready for a test drive as it need to get set up etc....But I was welcome to take a look if I wanted, so I went down

To be honest it's not as crazy as it looks when you see it in the flesh! It does look good, very good! Inside is amazing, loved the dash and dials, the seats are snug! I'm 6ft1 and 15.5 stone and any bigger would be tight lol.

Couple of shots, some idiot had parked right in front so had to make do with these:

View attachment 133105

View attachment 133106

I would switch my S3 for one of these!

No doubt it's probably a great performer but I detest the looks. No real shape to it just bits stuck everywhere. Plenty will like it but not for me I'm afraid.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

No doubt it's probably a great performer but I detest the looks. No real shape to it just bits stuck everywhere. Plenty will like it but not for me I'm afraid.

I like Panama's comments above

Nothing left for the mod boys to do

Classic lol

 

[Audi Bairn]

Even if you took the rear spoiler out of the equation - the front styling is all over the place.

View attachment 133116

Yup, a tacky mess imho.

 

[Bristle Hound]

8 pages in & still no answer !
lol

 

[Tom.H]

You must have a very trustworthy face? or as they say up here "a trustworthy coupon" lol

lol just got told, "you can leave a deposit if you like, I could sell a car of that spec any day so it's up to you"

She's dealt with me on and off for years though so knows what I'm like.

 

[DrEskimo]

lol just got told, "you can leave a deposit if you like, I could sell a car of that spec any day so it's up to you"

She's dealt with me on and off for years though so knows what I'm like.

They didnt take a deposit off me for my S3 order (did for my S5 order). Having said that, the lady I dealt with has been fired so maybe that's why....!
When I told them I wanted to cancel they very quickly asked me if I had a deposit.....was nice to say 'nope!'.

 

[Tom.H]

They didnt take a deposit off me for my S3 order (did for my S5 order). Having said that, the lady I dealt with has been fired so maybe that's why....!
When I told them I wanted to cancel they very quickly asked me if I had a deposit.....was nice to say 'nope!'.

Haha I bet that went down well when you left.

 

[DrEskimo]

Haha I bet that went down well when you left.

Ah mate I couldn't care less.

They ignored me for over a month. A shame as the sale of my S5 was great, but that salesman moved on.

Having said that, I took the S5 in for warranty work and the service was awful. Left a bitter taste in my mouth as it felt like they were great when it suited them (making money), otherwise didn't care....

 

[Spinstorm]

So this thread had driven me insane, I emailed my dealer tonight (yes at 12.30am) asking for a deal on an RS3.

I've done some maths and I believe that I can get a deal at around £800p/m - which is alot but only £100 more than my S3 is costing me (which is also more than most of you would pay!).

I have had to be super selective with my options to come in at £55k (Audi code ANAL9XED) I went for Black as I want a smart colour that isn't expensive and don't want to pay for Navarra at £2,400. I also stipulated I wouldn't want to collect until January. It may be that I am in dream land but lets see what they say.

 

[PanamaS3]

(Audi code ANAL9XED)

you are having a laugh with that code aren't you? lol hopefully no refelction on dealer service

 

[Spinstorm]

LOL I didn't even notice that until you called it out. It is real. Try it.

If we can come to a deal then I place my order and assuming its all cleared through finance then I can run in my S3 and get good use of it and have a nice new present for the new year. Financially I need to pay 6 months off the S3 to make the maths work hence January - but its perfectly possible the car won't arrive before then anyway.

 

[Tom.H]

So this thread had driven me insane, I emailed my dealer tonight (yes at 12.30am) asking for a deal on an RS3.

I've done some maths and I believe that I can get a deal at around £800p/m - which is alot but only £100 more than my S3 is costing me (which is also more than most of you would pay!).

I have had to be super selective with my options to come in at £55k (Audi code ANAL9XED) I went for Black as I want a smart colour that isn't expensive and don't want to pay for Navarra at £2,400. I also stipulated I wouldn't want to collect until January. It may be that I am in dream land but lets see what they say.

You're bonkers mate but fair play.