DQ250 to DQ500 swap

macradiators said:
Hello from Romania.
I have done a dq500 on my 2010 Leon tdi big turbo , 340hp/605nm, 3 months ago and everything works nice. I've done about 5k on this gearbox, pretty happy with it.
I just have an error similar to yours (databus). Should i replace the gateway also and code it?
I went from dq250 to dq500 from audi q3 2014 NYD gearbox, similar to yours.
If somebody needs help with the wiring its pretty simple, i have the connections saved, just removed pins from old dq250 connector and plugged into the new dq500 connector.

Right now i will have a new software prepared for it with improved shift times, 750Nm torque limit, kickdown removed plus some other tweaks and increased clamping pressure on discs.

If you can offer some info regarding the gateway would be very nice. I left my original one in place and have the databus error.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hello and well done with your swap, have you gone AWD or stayed FWD? I've just finished the swap for AWD on mine now!

The Gateway needs to be a 2010 onwards part (which yours could be but worth checking)
The part number for my gateway is 8P0907530C which is from a 2010 onwards A3 but 7N0907530N or 7N0907530J should also be OK - I looked for something that was used with the DQ500 from the factory so A3/TT/Q3/Tiguan/Transporter

I still have an error for a missing signal from the Canbus in the gearbox - but it seems to work as it should so I've not looked any further into it (although I think it is the diagnostic communication with the instrument cluster) It might just be a case of swapping the instrument cluster for a later one but I'm unsure, it's quite a lot of money to get rid of a fault code which doesn't actually seem to make any difference. I can send you a screen shot of my fault code to see if it is the same as yours?

Thanks
Alex
 
Last edited:
For the moment mine is FWD but the power and torque are so high that an awd conversion will be needed.
At 650Nm the front wheels spin and spin even in high gears.
What i dont like is the 1st 2 gears, are so short, almost useless.

Regarding the error, it does not make any difference i agree. I kept my original gateway 2010 Leon FR

From what i am told a good remap makes a huge difference on this gearbox.
My kess arrives tomorrow and i will remap it with 700Nm torque limit, faster speed changes in S mode, remove kickdown, quicker change with paddles.

Here is my error:
Error
 
grainqey said:
Hello and well done with your swap, have you gone AWD or stayed FWD? I've just finished the swap for AWD on mine now!

The Gateway needs to be a 2010 onwards part (which yours could be but worth checking)
The part number for my gateway is 8P0907530C which is from a 2010 onwards A3 but 7N0907530N or 7N0907530J should also be OK - I looked for something that was used with the DQ500 from the factory so A3/TT/Q3/Tiguan/Transporter

I still have an error for a missing signal from the Canbus in the gearbox - but it seems to work as it should so I've not looked any further into it (although I think it is the diagnostic communication with the instrument cluster) It might just be a case of swapping the instrument cluster for a later one but I'm unsure, it's quite a lot of money to get rid of a fault code which doesn't actually seem to make any difference. I can send you a screen shot of my fault code to see if it is the same as yours?

Thanks
Alex
Click to expand...

Hi Alex.....mine is an 08 model S3,and the instrument cluster communicates fully with the gearbox etc,although Andy did say it wasn't the easiest part of the conversion.

We've got mine working with over 750Nm on stock clutches also.
 
Your error looks very very similar to mine but I'll have to check my laptop in the morning as I deleted a few pictures off my phone that I didn't really need on it but I have it saved at home - pretty sure it's the same one. If you google the fault code then nothing comes up other than possibly the thread where I asked if anybody knew what it was for.

Thanks
Alex
 
S3Alex said:
Hi Alex.....mine is an 08 model S3,and the instrument cluster communicates fully with the gearbox etc,although Andy did say it wasn't the easiest part of the conversion.

We've got mine working with over 750Nm on stock clutches also.
Click to expand...

I'd have to ask Andy then but yours will most likely be different to ours as you are aftermarket ecu (as far as I know the gearbox communicates the diagnostics down the k-line which the dq250 uses but there's no k-line on the dq500) it all runs down the canbus so e.g gear selected and input torque and clutch torque are all available but no actual diagnostic messages upto the dash - p.s I may be wrong though without double checking but mine is plug and play for all the dis info from the gearbox with just the gateway - with the exception of the missing signal fault code.

Thanks
Alex
 
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O
macradiators said:
For the moment mine is FWD but the power and torque are so high that an awd conversion will be needed.
At 650Nm the front wheels spin and spin even in high gears.
What i dont like is the 1st 2 gears, are so short, almost useless.

Regarding the error, it does not make any difference i agree. I kept my original gateway 2010 Leon FR

From what i am told a good remap makes a huge difference on this gearbox.
My kess arrives tomorrow and i will remap it with 700Nm torque limit, faster speed changes in S mode, remove kickdown, quicker change with paddles.

Here is my error:
View attachment 132335
Click to expand...

Out of interest what is the code on your gearbox? If it's a diesel gearbox then 1st is useless other than for rolling along and 2nd is about the same as first on the petrol version fwiw - also for anybody out there coming here from Google... if your gearbox is between the production dates then most likely the odd gearshaft syncros will die as my NZS 'box did
 

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Mine is a NYD gearbox from 2014 Tiguan, so far did some 6000km and all ok, cant complain.
Cant wait to remap it these days and see the differences.
 
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grainqey said:
I'd have to ask Andy then but yours will most likely be different to ours as you are aftermarket ecu (as far as I know the gearbox communicates the diagnostics down the k-line which the dq250 uses but there's no k-line on the dq500) it all runs down the canbus so e.g gear selected and input torque and clutch torque are all available but no actual diagnostic messages upto the dash - p.s I may be wrong though without double checking but mine is plug and play for all the dis info from the gearbox with just the gateway - with the exception of the missing signal fault code.

Thanks
Alex
Click to expand...

Thinking on that,I'm sure that's the answer.

The ECU does have a range of diagnostics and figures available,but I'm quite sure he's programmed out the stuff it doesn't need etc.
 
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macradiators said:
Mine is a NYD gearbox from 2014 Tiguan, so far did some 6000km and all ok, cant complain.
Cant wait to remap it these days and see the differences.
Click to expand...
Hi there I'm doing a same convercion as you did dq500 but need help with wiring
Thanks
 
grainqey said:
Interesting update for anybody interested. The mechatronics are physically identical = I now have a diesel tiguan mqb gearbox with an rs3 mechatronics and speed sensor in it!

Anybody beware that the plug for the speed sensor in these is a little ****** to unplug - it's not that easy even with the gearbox out on a plus note though, you don't need to remove anything other than the speed sensor and take the sump cover off to take it out (8/9 bolts holding it in then just pulls out)

There's also a drain plug for the mechatronics sump on the side at the front corner (8mm spline bit from looking at it)

I'll post the pics up when I'm on the laptop

Alex
Click to expand...
Hi there mate I need help with wiring for the dq500 on Audi A3 8p
Thanks
 
Hi again.
Yesterday i remapped the gearbox but i need a better LC software.
1-2 gears are so short, if i launch at 4000rpm it goes to 5500rpm and doesnt change gear in S mode and stays at 5500
If i LC at 2500rpm and dont floor it, i press UP with paddle to go to 2nd and UP again to 3 ..then i can pull all the revs

Maybe LC should be done in 2nd gear with torque limitation to 400nm

I'm here to help with connections whenever needed, i have all diagrams.
Instead of changing LEVER , you can use and adapter to increase the length of the oem cable, like i did.
 
macradiators said:
Hi again.
Yesterday i remapped the gearbox but i need a better LC software.
1-2 gears are so short, if i launch at 4000rpm it goes to 5500rpm and doesnt change gear in S mode and stays at 5500
If i LC at 2500rpm and dont floor it, i press UP with paddle to go to 2nd and UP again to 3 ..then i can pull all the revs

Maybe LC should be done in 2nd gear with torque limitation to 400nm

I'm here to help with connections whenever needed, i have all diagrams.
Instead of changing LEVER , you can use and adapter to increase the length of the oem cable, like i did.
Click to expand...

Definitely need some better software there.....mine is effectively unmapped,and run purely off the Syvecs ECU,and has shift limits at 6500 in D,7000 in Sport,and 7200 in manual.

It will hold all the way to the limits if the throttle is wide open,or shift sooner obviously if on part throttle.
By flicking the paddles you're basically putting it in full manual mode for 30s each time anyway,so I'd think your problem is with the S mode mapping.
 
On my tuners car we have the same software but his is 4x4 converted, mine just fwd so lots of wheel spin


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
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Got it.

Then it may be TC trying to limit things as well

4WD,even the part time system we have makes a huge difference and replacing VAGs intrusive TC does even more for that.

I get no noticeable wheelspin even on using LC as the TC in the ECU is superb with several stages.
 
Maybe i have to find 3500rpm pedal position and hold it there ..without flooring it..and as soon as car is moving put 2ns 3rd and open throttle.
But wheel spin is massive as i tried it. Will do more tests.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
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I think the real problem in your case is torque control from what you're describing and finding a way of feeding that in without exceeding grip.

The TC method that VAG use isn't ideal and I always found it a pain as well as not very effective.

Unfortunately without changing the ECU I can't see an easy way around that issue.
Do you already have an LSD?
 
macradiators said:
The wavetrack front lsd is so expensive for the dq500

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Click to expand...

I had a quick look at that ....definitely not cheap.
My feeling was that on the manual gearbox that an LSD was worth every penny and I really could feel the improvements from it.

With the DQ500 and Syvecs I'm not having any traction or handling issues but you have a very different setup to mine and you're trying to put a lot more relatively through your front axle.

It may be that better software may get around some of that for you and I hope you're able to find something that works.
 
Syvecs ecu i see ;) I will probably do a 4x4 conversion. My tuner has all the complete rear axle with everything , just need to find a tank from S3 and that should be it. Of course a new exhaust :( but at least i will put some power down to the ground.
 
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macradiators said:
Syvecs ecu i see ;) I will probably do a 4x4 conversion. My tuner has all the complete rear axle with everything , just need to find a tank from S3 and that should be it. Of course a new exhaust :( but at least i will put some power down to the ground.
Click to expand...

Very best of luck with the conversion.
I'm sure it will make a huge difference.....the Syvecs was one of the single best upgrades along with the DQ500,that I've ever had done to this car.

Utterly transformed the engine.
 
macradiators said:
On my tuners car we have the same software but his is 4x4 converted, mine just fwd so lots of wheel spin


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Did you use petrol or diesel gearbox for your swap? the petrol 1st gear is around the same as 2nd from the diesel
The diesel ratios are very bad for wheel spin and also for high power.
Another issue I have seen of it sticking in a gear under load is with the syncro issue in my old NZS gearbox (between 2013 and 2014 production issue)
 
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I have tiguan tdi 2014 gearbox on mine. Wheel spin is a problem.
I dont have the gearbox ratios to compare between tdi and petrol dq500. would be interesting.

I think i might have a temporary solution, limiting the torque in engine mapping in 1 and 2nd gear under 60-70km/h, this should produce less wheel spin.
This is only important as i want to do some drag racing, but for street use i dont have any issues with traction, i usually dont burn rubber when i normally use the car.
Maybe i should concentrate more on 100-200km/h acceleration times than on drag racing since traction is not so good from stand still.
 
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macradiators said:
I have tiguan tdi 2014 gearbox on mine. Wheel spin is a problem.
I dont have the gearbox ratios to compare between tdi and petrol dq500. would be interesting.

I think i might have a temporary solution, limiting the torque in engine mapping in 1 and 2nd gear under 60-70km/h, this should produce less wheel spin.
This is only important as i want to do some drag racing, but for street use i dont have any issues with traction, i usually dont burn rubber when i normally use the car.
Maybe i should concentrate more on 100-200km/h acceleration times than on drag racing since traction is not so good from stand still.
Click to expand...

The petrol gearbox would be more suitable ratios for you - I do have them but I'd have to dig them out - the diesel gearbox from the tiguan has ratios to suit larger circumference tyres (so the ratios are in effect considerably longer) the diesel gearbox ratios top out at 234mph where as the petrol is 243mph based on about 7k rpm and 8P/golf/leon tyre sizes
 
1st gear
Tiguan 3.563 with final 4.733
RS3 3.562 with final 4.059
If i got it right i would of been better with the MYD gearbox, 1st gear needs almost 16% less rotation to cover the same distance

I cant find RS3 gearbox, but i can find Tiguan or Q3 petrol ones. The code is same, MYD iirc. Would this be good?
 
macradiators said:
1st gear
Tiguan 3.563 with final 4.733
RS3 3.562 with final 4.059
If i got it right i would of been better with the MYD gearbox, 1st gear needs almost 16% less rotation to cover the same distance

I cant find RS3 gearbox, but i can find Tiguan or Q3 petrol ones. The code is same, MYD iirc. Would this be good?
Click to expand...

The RS3's are hard to find! I struggled to get mine. The MYD should be fine if its from a petrol. I've got an NYF from memory. Just make sure the build date is ok (not between 06-13 and 07-14 - anything outside of that should be ok
 
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grainqey said:
The RS3's are hard to find! I struggled to get mine. The MYD should be fine if its from a petrol. I've got an NYF from memory. Just make sure the build date is ok (not between 06-13 and 07-14 - anything outside of that should be ok
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

I was very fortunate to have a friend who kindly sold me the RS3 box he had and now I can see why Storm were so keen for me to source that particular box.

Looking at those figures that's a 14% shorter final drive on the RS3 box which will make a huge difference
 
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grainqey said:
The RS3's are hard to find! I struggled to get mine. The MYD should be fine if its from a petrol. I've got an NYF from memory. Just make sure the build date is ok (not between 06-13 and 07-14 - anything outside of that should be ok
Click to expand...
Hi what's wrong with 06-13 and 07-14 mine is 2014 box
Thanks
 
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