Rob's B7 old bus engine upgrade project.

[Charlie Farley]

So it's time for another project but this time it's more about engine longevity than just adding a bolt-on upgrade.
Having identified a few issues that need addressing, not an emergency but still have to be sorted, plus a few others that need doing due to wear and tear plus possible failure parts due to design flaws, this is my plan.

The old bus is worth spending on so I have no issues with that part of the equation, nor do I have any problem tackling the work so that's another box ticked, it also saves a lot of money from a labour-free cost aspect of DIY repairs.

A new clutch and DMF are now due, it's working fine but it will be getting towards the end of its working life now so best to get it sorted, and a prerequisite really for any sort of turbo upgrade.
There is the trusty oil leak from the oil-cooler joint so that's to do.
the rear engine mount /gearbox mount seems to be quite loose now (original OEM items) so another item on the list
The dreaded oil-pump failure.

Now on there own some of these jobs would be a pain but I plan to remove the engine and do the above with it out of the chassis, it just makes sense.
Fit the new clutch/DMF, rectify that pesky oil-cooler leak, overhaul the oil pump with a suitable kit and fit the revised suction pipe.

I'm going with another OEM clutch assembly.
Probably stay with another OEM oil-cooler kit etc.
Having looked into the oil pump options I'm going with the wasa full kit inc new tensioner and camshaft sprocket.
fit new rear mounts too.
whack in a new cam follower just for the hell of it.

I fitted a new cambelt and water pump last year and only done 2k miles on it so no need to mess with that .

I have an engine lift and engine stand so an engine out is by far the best route to get all done in one swoop on a DIY basis and save myself a large chunk in labour -cost.

Once the lump is out of the car I can then give it a good inspection just to be sure everything else is ok.

So best start ordering bits starting with this.

 

[Charlie Farley]

I may fit the turbo kit aswell, not sure just yet as I'm yet to find a suitable HFC to go with it, and just a waste leaving the oem cat in place with the new turbo.

something to ponder on .

 

[Charlie Farley]

It is one of those jobs where one can just go on and on doing things that may or may not need fixing but I think I'm about right with my plans.

A possible job with the engine out would be a decoke, which is a lot easier with the engine on an engine stand than being stuck in the car.

 

[Gmac]

Sounds like a great plan Rob, and like you say, a lot easier for these jobs with the engine pulled. No doubt there will be a few things that show themselves once it’s out, but thats a good thing really. Keep us posted. When you thinking of starting?

 

[Charlie Farley]

An update on this project.
I've been pondering on a possible different direction with this which may preserve my original BUL lump. It was a plan I was hoping to take forward some time ago but due to a courier issue, I never received the replacement BUL engine, so aborted things.
Now I'm somewhat in the realms of certain parts almost at the end of their working life it may be prudent to revisit the alternate engine route.
In some ways it's not much more work but does create a blank canvas and can all be done out of the car with just an engine refit required, I was going down the engine out route anyway so it's no change really on that front.
BUL engines that are any good are very hard to come by which makes preserving it more important.
So I'm looking at another engine, preferably one of the more reliable codes for the b7 but as it's going to be a rebuild I'm not too fussed, as long as it's a known and proven good runner that's okay as it's going to get rebuild anyway but I rather not have a bin job to start with.
Also means the old bus is not off the road whilst all the work is carried out, I cant be without the old bus...

Ok, time to track down a suitable power plant.

 

[NM07]

@Charlie Farley I think an alternate, more reliable lump is a great idea. Having owned one, I've never been particularly keen on the 2.0 TFSI, even in BUL form, they have too many caveats and poorly designed components for me to really love, not to mention the high oil consumption.

What sort of budget do you have for this project? From a cost/reliability perspective, the 1.8T is well known and bulletproof, and can be swapped into yours with minimal modification as it was natively fitted to the B7 platform. It does still suffer with some oil consumption issues though, but not as badly. The only other petrol engine natively fitted to the B7 that I would consider is the 4.2 V8 from the RS4, not the one from the S4.

If you are looking for something more potent, but with greater reliability than the other petrol engines in the B7 platform, I would be tempted to look into the modern 2.5 TFSI inline 5 engine. 400hp and 500nm, in a compact package which would suit the smaller engine bay of a B7 is a tempting proposition. Though fitting it will require a lot of custom work with mounts and electronics.

Following with interest though Rob, you have the opportunity to make the ultimate bus!

 

[Bradderz_1988]

If i was sticking a lump in it with turbo and all the bells and whistles to go along with it then my go to choice would be VR6T

 

[Charlie Farley]

thanks for the input guys.
I don't have a budget as such, I've found from experience with b7 upgrades that setting a budget normally doesn't work...well not with me that is..lol
I'm thinking as close a match for my existing installation as possible, so retaining as much of the original engine bay format and layout.

It would be great to just go at it head-on full steam with a very different engine but i really do not want that these days, i'm just looking to get to a decent perfromance upgrade with reliability, something around 350bhp ish would be fine.
I have the clutch/dmf etc ready to fit also the turbo upgrade kit and a few other bits.
I'm deciding on the possibility of new s3 injectors but may leave that as the turbozentrum kit doesn't need them, a serious remap will be a definite item.

just down to power unit choice and as straightforward install as it can be, if i need any serious engine work that may change my plans but all dependant on what i can find.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Buying an MOT failure car may be a possible route, something that has failed on non-engine issues, take what I want then scrap the rest, just one possible avenue.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Currently drifting more towards picking up a whole tfsi b7 with a good donor engine, maybe an insurance right off or MOT failure, as long as it is a runner with a degree of engine service history that may be the most reliable base for a working useable engine.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Off to see an mot failure b7 today with a view to using its engine, probably a wasted effort but worth a look.

I've seen a few but nothing i'd buy for the project, maybe just resort to using my original power unit .

 

[Charlie Farley]

yet another waste of time and petrol.
Ive decided to just crack on and use the BUL engine I have fitted , probably best as I know the cars history from 29k miles .

looks like next week will be a busy one and i need to get prepped for the engine out , allways something to do.

 

[B7Tourer]

Wise move Rob, I always think an engine swap is a last resort for a dead engine; one day these maybe classics (yours I imagine especially) and matching serial numbers then become important. Just a personal opinion, not a fan of a balance shaft deletes on 4 cylinder engines; they really do aid refinement. It's a common mod on the TDis (swapping for the 1.9 pumps) but can make them a bit agricultural. At least for me there was a proven reliable solution that retained them.

 

[Charlie Farley]

With the coming week a holiday for me, I'm thinking about just doing this and be done with it now.
It's a job I've been putting off for a few months now and add on the other work the old bus has needed the engine dept has been knocked back a bit.

rear inner CV tomorrow along with new front pads, so thats another 2 boxes ticked.

Possibly a new exhaust is imminent too.

The old bus has been a deep-pocket project this year without doubt.

 

[Charlie Farley]

A bit of a change in plans.
I've been struck down with a reoccurrence of my problematic back issues today and it's not looking good to attempt this task myself, well not for a while at any rate.
With this in mind I'm going to get a quote to get it all done in one go by my local indy, it wasn't something I'd planned on doing but realistically it's the only way the engine work is going to get sorted out.

It's going to be an engine out job that's a certainty.
I'll supply the parts to do the following.

Oil pump balance shaft mod.
new cam timing chain and tensioner kit
Fuel pump top hat
clutch and DMF kit
revised oil pickup suction pipe
turbozentrum uprated turbo kit
Thermostat

with me supplying those bits i will only be looking a labour cost for the most part.

Also inlet manifold walnut blasting decoke while engine is out and some s3 injectors, yet to be sourced.

That should prettywell cover any future engine issues for some time to come other than normal servicing etc.

finally a decent remap but i'm open to recommendations on that one.

I'm going to get stung for a lot of labour costs going this route but unless my current condition improves its my only option if i wish to complete the bus upgrade.

 

[Dan_G]

Are you doing the cam chain as preventative or as an upgrade?

And the fuel pump top hat, is that the hpfp one that runs off the cam?

I’m trying to work out what essentials I need to do to mine to ensure longevity…. Done the belt and water pump…

Thanks!

 

[Charlie Farley]

Are you doing the cam chain as preventative or as an upgrade?

And the fuel pump top hat, is that the hpfp one that runs off the cam?

I’m trying to work out what essentials I need to do to mine to ensure longevity…. Done the belt and water pump…

Thanks!

I did the cam chain tensioner a few years back but not the chain, it makes sense to do it this time around as the parts were not that expensive and its is a known point of wear., new tensioner and chain , maybe a new variator too but i'd need to buy that bit.

yes , new top hat or hpfp cam follower as its better known, standard format to replace as needed.

I did a water pump/cam belt less than 10k miles ago so good to go on that for some time now.

 

[Charlie Farley]

I'm not one to become fixated on a specific area of a car but of late the engine has become one of my concerns.
Well, more specifically the oil pump and associated parts and the clutch/dmf

I suspect the clutch will be good for some time yet but the DMF is starting to fail and i don't fancy it failing when I least expect it, so best get it done ASAP.
The oil pump problem is a bit of an unknown, and they can just fail as many have found to their cost.
so I'm opting for a complete solution along with the revised pickup pipe.

The same applies to the clutch really, its working fine but I just don't want it failing.

hence my plan to get the engine out and all those jobs done in one swoop, just makes sense.

 

[Charlie Farley]

If the quotes are silly expensive then i will do it myself , i'll just have to get a mate in to assist.

 

[Rob Avant]

A bit of a change in plans.
I've been struck down with a reoccurrence of my problematic back issues today and it's not looking good to attempt this task myself, well not for a while at any rate.
With this in mind I'm going to get a quote to get it all done in one go by my local indy, it wasn't something I'd planned on doing but realistically it's the only way the engine work is going to get sorted out.

It's going to be an engine out job that's a certainty.
I'll supply the parts to do the following.

Oil pump balance shaft mod.
new cam timing chain and tensioner kit
Fuel pump top hat
clutch and DMF kit
revised oil pickup suction pipe
turbozentrum uprated turbo kit
Thermostat

with me supplying those bits i will only be looking a labour cost for the most part.

Also inlet manifold walnut blasting decoke while engine is out and some s3 injectors, yet to be sourced.

That should prettywell cover any future engine issues for some time to come other than normal servicing etc.

finally a decent remap but i'm open to recommendations on that one.

I'm going to get stung for a lot of labour costs going this route but unless my current condition improves its my only option if i wish to complete the bus upgrade.

That’s a good comprehensive list there Rob.
I had the pick up pipe done when the car went in for the clutch & DMF.

Let me know if you find a good source on the S3 injectors as I still need some

 

[Charlie Farley]

Had a quote this afternoon to do all the items on the engine, they have quoted me 2 days labour and sundries, not inc the walnut blasting of the inlet manifold.

£2k give or take a few quids.

I'm going to get a few more just to compare.

to be honest thats £2k more than I wanted payout just for labour cost, if the others are in the same ballpark I may swing back to my DIY plan but get a mate in to help with the heavy and awkward bits.

 

[Charlie Farley]

That’s a good comprehensive list there Rob.
I had the pick up pipe done when the car went in for the clutch & DMF.

Let me know if you find a good source on the S3 injectors as I still need some

Hi Rob,
I found a few new possible sources for the S3 injectors at sensible prices, will let you know if they are worth going with etc.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Thus far I've only had 1 indy offer me a quote to do the work, 3 more I spoke with would only do it if they supplied the parts, that's never going to happen, and another wanted over £3k plus vat and that is also a never going to happen.

So with all that in mind, it looks to be back in the realm of a DIY project.
I've had a chat with a mate who is happy to help out for a drink so that's the new plan, given the lack of any other suitable option it's the only plan now...

 

[mikep99]

I'm finding that more and more nowadays Rob.
A lot of places won't do "labour only" unfortunately....
Bit of a pain as I'm thinking about new shocks & springs on mine....
Mike

 

[Charlie Farley]

Given they are going to make a lot in labour cost one would assume it would be a win win situation for them, but maybe thats not enough and they want a profit on the parts too.
Anyway, i'll get it sorted myself and sod them.
Allmost forgot, two of the garages were not willing to fit the wasamotor balance shaft delete kit either, or the turbo kit as they weren't audi spec.
Surely if I'm paying the bill and supplying new parts, whats the problem.

 

[mikep99]

I think some of it is down to responsibility if any personally supplied parts fail. Which I can sort of understand tbh.
Mike

 

[Charlie Farley]

Agreed , but the garages I contacted were just so unhelpful to be honest.

I almost got the impression they wanted to make it as difficult as possible as they didn't want the to do it, maybe it's just me, once upon a time a garage would go out of their way for the work, which doesn't seem to be the case anymore.